EvilDan wrote:Okay, I said I was going to drop this, but since Conrad decided to personally attack and insult me, I will respond to what was said. As you noticed, yes, I was making generalizations. Not attacking you. At no point, did I say "you". I'm disappointed.
I apologize in advance for the length, but there are some important points below, for those that are interested.
Bullshit, quit making excuses. I wasn't making any insults against you any worse than your "lazy and apathetic" insults against me. So basically you're saying it's ok for you to call me lazy and apathetic but you get upset when I call you lazy and ignorant? God forbid I insult the almighty "EvilDan" how dare I question your authority? What a tragedy. And it makes no difference if you were insulting me directly, or trying to be cunning by making "generalizations" and hope that I wont take offense to your obvious insults. It's clear from what you're saying that you're grouping me into a "lazy and apathetic" category. That IS a personal insult. Sugarcoat it all you like, the fact remains, you're wrong.
EvilDan wrote: However, I guess no one should ever generalize.
That's the smartest thing you've said so far. To quote the omnipotent EvilDan... Kudos.
EvilDan wrote:Did you not say before that you wouldn't help a neighbor if they were being violated? That witnessing a crime, you would ignore it? It was their problem, and they shouldn't expect help from you? Now, you go out of your way to help people?
Wtf? No, I didn't say any such thing. Wait, after a moments thought, I'm assuming you're referring to the comment I made to Slaytanic. You obviously took it the wrong way and twisted it way out of proportion. Like I said, the feeling I get from your statements is that its MY fault if your privacy gets violated, regardless of the circumstances, and THAT is what I have a problem with. Lets say for examples sake i'm not home, and my neighbours house gets robbed. I come home and they're yelling and ranting at me for not doing anything about it, when I wasn't around to even have any knowledge of it in the first place and provide help. How the fuck is that MY fault? The lazy and ignorant would blame it on me. I happen to live in a tightly knit neighbourhood watch group, actually. But I can understand your concern, I can only assume Americans don't care for one another and their neigbours, which is probably why you're so upset about it. Culturally, and the way of life in NZ is very different. Perhaps you should consider relocating.. just a thought. Even Australias gotta be better than wherever you are now, judging from how strung out you are about it, it must be pretty bad.
EvilDan wrote:2nd, I never called YOU lazy. I, as you pointed out, made a generalization and kept it there. I did not address ANY individuals. Who said I don't do my own oil changes? That's an imaginary leap. Since when do we get to start making up facts, then attacking someone based on that? So your personal attacks on me are based on a false presumption.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you don't need to address any individuals, it's clear from what you're saying that you're referring to all people who are lazy and apathetic, which in your view includes.. you guessed it.. ME. "Since when did we start making up facts, then attacking someone based on that?"
Answer: since you falsely accused me of being too lazy to help a neighbour, or a friend, or a stranger, should they require my unconditional help. You took the first imaginary leap, I simply took a hop in the same direction.
EvilDan wrote:I took matters into my own hands. Not only taking care of any repairs and maintenance that I can, not only investigating what other oil change services also required the information, not only notifying people of this crime (educating them, as I did here), but also attempting to get law enforcement agencies to do their jobs. Result = nothing. Sounds lazy and ignorant to me. Kudos.
Talk is cheap, for all I know you could be talking yourself up. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and say good on you, mate, for doing the right thing. And don't think I'm being sarcastic, I mean that, sincerely. You should know by now, I'm not one to "beat around the bush" so to speak, I don't "generalize", I get straight to the point. And you're right, you're still lazy and ignorant. Kudos.
EvilDan wrote:Wrong? What's wrong? Nothing said follows what I said. You just agreed with what I said above, followed by more false presumptions and personal attacks. Kudos. Again, since it seems to have been missed, even though it was stated, I generalized and expanded the original point. And since you're so worried about me leaving the forum, I have already actively taken actions to promote what I need. And there's a great deal of things I would like to share with people, but won't because of this. As I've said about several topics on here, I'll be much freer with what I will discuss onbroad, where there is no permanent record.
I was referring to myself as "lazy and apathetic" because that's how you know me, doesn't necessarily mean I agree with you, so my comment about standing up for myself when I feel my personal privacy has been breached still stands. You said that the lazy and apathetic (i.e. me, you're trying to be smart by not referring to me personally, but I know you are) don't care if they lose their privacy and freedom until something happens directly to them. Up to that point, it's someone else's problem. THAT is what's wrong. You said it yourself.. imaginary leaps, you're falsely making shit up about me like you have been doing from the start. I've already said i'm fortunate enough to live in a country where I haven't needed to fight against the law.. for breaking the law. But I guarantee you if I was asked to produce ID at a gas station here, I'll be showing them more than just my ID. I don't produce ID anywhere other than where it is required BY LAW. i.e liquor store, bar, airport etc. If that is being lazy and apathetic, so be it. I know my rights.
And everything i've said follows what you've said, you just can't see it, it is common knowledge to misunderstand what people say on the internet, so I wont hold that against you. Yeah, you're absolutely right, I agree with everything you said.. that's why I'm debating with you, excellent logic, Sir. And where were the personal attacks? I don't see that at all. Clearly for whatever strange reason you believe "lazy and apathetic" is not a personal attack on me, but "lazy and ignorant" is a peronal attack on you.. go figure.
EvilDan wrote:Ah, nice. More false presumptions and insults. Derisively dismissing what you already said you do. I see exactly what I said above in action every single day. (Someone not being proactive and protecting themselves, then bitching when something happens to them.) How exactly am I "passing on" the problem?
Correction - accurate presumption and no insult. At this point, i'm getting confused with what your idea of an "insult" is. Is it that I said "hypocrite"? Oh God, no! Oh, the horror. Perhaps you need to grow a thicker hide. How is it that hypocrite is an insult, but you calling me lazy isn't? What I meant is that you constantly complain about how us "lazy" folk (yes, you continually insult me but I don't cry about it) supposedly don't do anything about our privacy being violated, until something happens to us, then supposedly we blame someone else for not intervening? Yet YOU are blaming someone else (us) for the problems in the first place. THAT is what makes you a hypocrite. Not an insult, a FACT.
EvilDan wrote:I have to admit, I just don't follow the logic here, but I'll roll with it. I do actively avoid places that have cameras. (And I'm still not pleased with Section 13 of our contract, but I'm willing to sacrifice to be on the boat.) Is it any coincidence that I'm practically a hermit? This isn't the "Ostrich Syndrome" because I am actively recognizing and acting. And your solution is to shut up and take it? I think I'll fight, thank you very much. Just because it happens, doesn't mean it's acceptable. Just because that's the way it's always been, doesn't mean it HAS to be that way.
Why am I not surprised? You don't seem to follow any logic at all. And thanks for proving my point. You just admitted to actively avoiding certain public places that have cameras, sounds like sheer paranoia to me. Yet you'll go on the boat despite your disagreement with section 13 of the contract. Like I said, you're a hypocrite, you'll comply with the system you suppodedly actively rebel against, as long as it is convenient for you. That is a crock of shit. I do agree that just because it happens, doesn't mean it's acceptable. But i've never said my solution is to just shut up and take it, I don't know where you got that idea from, like you said... imaginary leaps. I've already told you, if my personal privacy is violated, I will act against it, and I have done in the past, I don't put up with that shit. I don't know what part of that is so difficult for you to understand. I may not be an activist like you claim to be in that I don't purposely approach law enforcement and make them do their job, because as far as I'm concerned for the most part, at least in NZ, they're doing a fine job. But i'm also certainly not passive either in that I don't do nothing if someone violates my rights or freedoms. I respect law enforcement here and pisses me off when I hear young people say shit like "fuck the police!" they're constantly abused for doing their job. How about instead of "fuck the police" just quit breaking the law = the police wont hassle you. Problem solved.
EvilDan wrote:More insults, more flawed logic, my statements ignored, and completely missing the point. Just another chance to attack and insult that doesn't further the dialogue. I'll ignore the obvious contradictions to what was said before. I have hopes that people will learn before it's too late. However, history, in general, is not on my side.
I'm not insulting you mate, just telling it how it is, that's how I roll. I get your point, I just don't agree with it, that doesn't mean i'm "missing the point". Too bad, you can't ignore your contradictions in your previous statement, because I already pointed them out to you.
EvilDan wrote:Yes, I am passionate about my personal freedom. When it's infringed upon, I fight back. It affects EVERYONE, not just me. I'm surprised that the idea that people failing to act are as responsible as those actively acting is a foreign concept to people.
Good for you. Kudos. And it's not a foreign concept at all, it's just an innacurate and logically flawed concept. There is a clear distinction there.
EvilDan wrote:It not fair? Since when did fairness become a concern? Certainly, it's not fair that other people's ignorance and lack of action negatively affect my rights? However, I didn't cry that "it's not fair". Such a strange thing to throw in the middle, and I don't feel like getting into a discussion of moral relativism.
You missed the point. I couldn't care less how negatively your rights are affected. What I meant is that it is not fair to blame ME PERSONALLY because you're too paranoid to go out in public for fear that someone will see you on a security camera. Or someone will glance at you from the other side of the street. That's not my problem. So stop trying to blame me for being responsible for your paranoia. And i'm not crying about it any more than you're crying that your precious rights and privacy are violated. It was just a simple statement, nothing more, nothing less.
EvilDan wrote:I will not take the personal attacks personally. Fair?
Glad to hear that, I'd hate for you to take anything i've said personally... that would surely break my heart. Because I haven't made any attacks against you any more than you have against me. Fair, indeed.
Anyway, I'm over it. If this continues we'll just keep goin' in circles. So i'm gonna be the better man here and drop it. Agree to disagree? Feel free to continue insulting me, blaming me for whatever it is you want, or reply to this message, whatever. You wont hear anything more from me. I've dropped it. Enjoy the cruise, and I hope your paranoia doesn't cause you to lock yourself away in your cabin. Because there will be a lot of cameras on board, imagine the injustice of being caught in the background of someones shot, right? Inconceivable.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.