70000TONS OF METAL OFFICIAL FORUM

by **Laura** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:17 pm

^^^ thanks Mal & Marlo for the suggestions. :cheers:

Didn't expect Kev to answer since he's sadly not here much anymore, yet rather usually "out to lunch" on FB. :lol:

(and being as hilarious as ever *there*...)

by **rwalters** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:41 pm

For me, Soilwork died after Natural Born Chaos. They had a little life on Stabbing the Drama, but have been dead since. I will be at both sets just hoping for Chainheart and Predator's Portrait tracks. I give them massive credit for Natural Born Chaos as that is a landmark release since nobody has really ever done anything like that before. Far more interesting than their copy/paste At The Gates stuff. (even if my stubborness likes that more)

by **WizardBeast** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:54 pm

rwalters wrote: I will be at both sets just hoping for Chainheart and Predator's Portrait tracks.

ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheers:

and yes, i've seen them live twice, and they were not as good as I had hoped either time. being the RAGING optimist that i am, i will hope they do old stuff and actually play well!

by **rwalters** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:56 pm

You good w/ Natural Born Chaos or are you too tru?

I've seen them live at least 3 times and they fucking rock :lol:

What is this about them being bad live? I'd be interested in whom you feel are GREAT LIVE. Iron Maiden / Slayer / Lamb of God / GWAR / Mastodon? Agreed.

by **WizardBeast** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:02 pm

rwalters wrote:You good w/ Natural Born Chaos or are you too tru?

haha i LIKE what i LIKE, not based on classification and if something is "metal". that being said, i am pretty hit and miss with that album. some tracks just don't do anything for me but others are pretty cool, like Follow the Hollow and Black Star Deceiver. It's better than Figure No Five!!! I do like Stabbing the Drama, Sworn to a Great Divide, and Panic Broadcast. I think the last 3 have gotten better and better. Anyway i would consider myself a big fan of the band!

Predator's Portrait is my favorite though. The guitar solo in Structure Divine is one of the best metal guitar solos I know of, it's perfect to my ears.

i am far from the only one who doesn't think Soilwork is that good live. In fact that's the biggest complaint of anyone I know who is into them. They have come across as sloppy and not dynamic.

So who's good live, Maiden, Overkill, Gojira, Devin Townsend, Cynic, Morbid Angel, Immolation. I have seen Slayer be pretty bad live....but they're always FUN, so i'll let their sloppiness ride.

by **rwalters** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:19 pm

Yeah I did that Between the Buried and Me / Cynic / Devin Townsend gig and were all phenomenal. I love that BTBAM were giving Cynic and DT added exposure. I'm a Megadeth/Slayer die hard so they can no wrong for me. Seeing Slayer tomorrow at Rockstar Mayhem. Finally goign to show up late since High On Fire dropped the tour. Getting Anthrax / As I Lay Dying / Motorhead / Slayer straight so I'll be happy. Haven't seen Slipknot since they were on like Ozzfest 99 so that'll be interesting.

Regarding Soilwork:

My Album Rankings:
Predator's Portrait
NBC
Chainheart Machine
Stabbing the Drama
Steelbath Suicide
Figure Number Five
Panic Broadcast
Sworn To A Great Divide

Not into Sworn at all. No Wichers = No Soilwork for me :)

by **doc** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:23 pm

WizardBeast wrote:I have seen Slayer be pretty bad live....but they're always FUN, so i'll let their sloppiness ride.

You misspelled something, as I've got no other explanation to the word "pretty" in your sentence

- Slayer is ALWAYS ULTRA BRÜTAL TORTURE KILLING LIVE :shred:

(one does not simply question Slayer. Never. Ever.) :headbanger:

by **rwalters** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:29 pm

I would do anything Tom Araya would tell me to do without question. He has that kind of power over me. Motherfucker TAUGHT ME how to headbang.

If Kerry King tells the press your band sucks or that you suck, I instantly agree with him.

by **WizardBeast** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:49 pm

rwalters wrote:I would do anything Tom Araya would tell me to do without question. He has that kind of power over me. Motherfucker TAUGHT ME how to headbang.

If Kerry King tells the press your band sucks or that you suck, I instantly agree with him.

haha, i know way too much about Kerry King to do that...

by **viathyn** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:56 pm

I may have mentioned this before... and I may be sticking my head into the shark tank with this one... but as far as Slayer is concerned: I just don't get it. I don't see the appeal. I consider myself pretty open-minded when it comes to checking out bands.. and I had certainly given slayer a chance (Bought a few albums, learned to play a few songs), but all of that was dashed away when I saw them live. Sloppy, muddy, and with a collective sour attitude on stage to boot. Yet these guys are worshipped. Someone explain what about them makes you guys get wet'n'giggly. I'm not being condescending, I'm legitimately curious because maybe I am just missing something.

by **doc** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:15 pm

viathyn wrote:maybe I am just missing something.

Yes, Slayer INVENTED THE SHIT. To state shortly.
They are symbol and icon in metal (especially for older folks). And in my opinion, they stayed the way the were since the begining - no compromise in music and "exploring new areas" like Metallica fucked up. I could write and speak for hours, but I gotta run - maybe on board we'll set up discussion group to cover this topic

by **rwalters** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:20 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSoh3c7QVyw

This pretty much sums it up bro. None of your stupid ass wishlist bands could ever have a video like this.

BTW, I love this Doc guy. Slayer is so awesome that I wish I could have Jeff Hanneman marry me and my wife (since she doesn't know who Jeff Hanneman is, it' was in the realm of possibility). That never happened..... :( Alas, just some regular preacher.

by **rwalters** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:32 pm

Also, if you don't like Angel of Death, then we can never have an understanding about what is good about metal and why we are listening to music. Hell, even church people like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHb4gs1hwck

by **vikingbitch** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:02 am

viathyn wrote:I may have mentioned this before... and I may be sticking my head into the shark tank with this one... but as far as Slayer is concerned: I just don't get it. I don't see the appeal. I consider myself pretty open-minded when it comes to checking out bands.. and I had certainly given slayer a chance (Bought a few albums, learned to play a few songs), but all of that was dashed away when I saw them live. Sloppy, muddy, and with a collective sour attitude on stage to boot. Yet these guys are worshipped. Someone explain what about them makes you guys get wet'n'giggly. I'm not being condescending, I'm legitimately curious because maybe I am just missing something.

Okay, its early in the morning and I'm about 1/4 way through my first coffee of the day so bear with me but I'll try to sum up the reverence that at least I have for Slayer since you were looking for a perspective from a Slayer fan. There are many gateways into metal, in my opinion the two largest especially in North America have been Iron Maiden and Slayer. They may not be the greatest bands to walk the earth (don't shoot me Maiden fans - I'm saying that in relation to individual tastes and complexity of their music itself for both bands) but they will always be respected and held fondly in the hearts of metal heads that found their niche and love of music through them. They were my largest gateway band as a kid and that is one of my main reasons for the pedestal I will always put Slayer on, I liked Maiden but they were not my jumping off point like Slayer were.

For the thrash scene in particular and the bands that were influenced and the genres spawned from the early North American thrash scene, I am personally of the opinion (more people will probably jump in and argue with me now) that Slayer were more influential than even the Cliff Burton Metallica years for the fact that their music brought to the forefront something so much more raw, downright evil (rwalter's Angel of Death reference for example and their darker imagery and content) at the time and offered a darker precedent for other metal bands to build off of for pushing these kinds of limits musically. They were a gateway into something darker than what Metallica and a few great riffs could offer. One could arguably also jump in at this point to make note of the black metal bands arising in Europe at this same time having a larger influence but I would disagree to a degree from the fact that at that time Slayer was much more accessible between hearing their music and seeing shows live.

We all know, having such varied tastes between broad members that we've learned about through our time on this forum and getting to know each other in person how different some of our tastes in music can be from each other. For the Slayer fans, even though they may branch and get into a number of other types of music - at the end of the day they will constantly search and look for in their music the rawness, anger and power that they originally discovered and became addicted to to satisfy some need when they first heard "insert song name". Those features of their music continue to be prevalent in their future tastes it seems for most Slayer fans.

For me personally, I started off on Slayer about ten years ago when first getting into metal and it was a jumping off point for me. It quite literally is comfort food for me, I had kind of a rough patch of a few screwed up things happening in my life when I was 17 (I even got my own facebook hate groups dedication to the hatred of me, death threats, alcohol poisoning multiple times etc etc all in one shit storm year and I was pretty damn destructive) and to cope with it I went back to my roots with the band that first got me into metal and listened to nothing buy Slayer for months. Now, when I'm at my angriest or in pain - the song "God Send Death" will jump into my head and I'll instantly feel calmer almost like a defense mechanism. I will always be thankful to Slayer for that and they will always stay on the pedestal I've put them for sheer gratitude alone. This is why I could barely string a bloody sentence together when I got to meet Kerry King at a signing.

Cheers hun :bangers:

by **Laura** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:03 am

^^^ Marlo - that is one helluva amazing post you wrote there. :cheers:

I'm not a big Slayer fan by any means, but I totally get it - that is, I can understand & appreciate much of what you said (and you expressed incredibly well).

rwalters - it is *very* clear that you are extremely passionate and knowledgeable about your favorite bands. And I gotta say that I *really* respect that. In other words, you are clearly *not* just a casual milquetoast* music fan which I can totally relate to since I've been an obsessive music fan for as long as I can remember. But... to beat another 70K forum dead horse even further

...you referred to Jake's "lame-ass wish list bands"....yes, "lame ass" to you, but obviously not to him.

Can we agree that individually we actually hear sound and music uniquely & differently? I've read a few articles and a book recently by a combination of psychologists & musicologists that go into great detail on this. It's fascinating as hell!! Just as interesting, if not even more to me, was an article I stumbled upon in a musicology journal at work just a few days ago that theorized the reasons why primitive humans started to develop music in the first place (from an evolutionary point of view). Haha - pondering these kinds of things makes me (to use a popular 70K-ism) *especially* wet n giggly. :lol:

*I love the word milquetoast -

for non-native English speakers who may not know it - here's a good definition - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milquetoast

by **rwalters** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:56 am

Laura,

I like alot of the bands on his wishlist (listed below) actually. However, when I put on my "Slayer Hat", the schtick comes out and every other band basically sucks in comparison:

-Arch.Matheos-/-Barren.Earth-/-BTBAM-/-Cynic-/-Devin.Townsend-/-Human.Abstract (dead in the water)-/-Hypocrisy-/-Ihsahn-/-Insomnium-/-Katatonia (HUGE HUGE fan)-/-Mnemic (wow they are still around)-/-Omnium.Gatherum-/-Pain.of.Salvation (suck now)-/-Protest.the.Hero (HUGE FAN)-/-Revocation-/-Tesseract (get a vocalist that sticks please)-/-

Anyways, Viathyn.... you don't really like anything with that aggressive, mosh, fuck you up, angry attitude. Everything is mostly based on instrumental precision and is mostly very safe to listen to. Not violent at all. A big BIG part of metal is attitude and I think that's just something you don't understand and/or missing from what you listen to. That's why you don't "get Slayer"

If you think my Slayer bias is bad, don't get me started on my love for Dave Mustaine.... :)

by **viathyn** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:32 am

Marlo: thanks for breaking down your reasoning! I can definitely relate to how you can latch on to something that carries emotional importance. I've got a few bands that are like that for me.

Laura: haha, thanks for defending my right to enjoy my own 'stupid-ass' bands :lol:

rwalters: If the main draw really is a violent, fuck-you-up, mosh attitude, then it seems like it's more escapist than anything. Just because my 'stupid-ass' wishlist doesn't feature any thrash, doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music; I've just seen a lot of the bands several times. To relate this to the 'big four' if you will, they were one of my main gateways into metal as a young teenager. I loved the other three, but could never get into slayer. Now, you may be right about me not having that fuck-you-up attitude. To be honest, I hate moshing. I connected with the other bands musically, just as I've connected with hundreds of others. Slayer just doesn't seem to me like it's a musician's band.. I'm curious about how many musicians listen to slayer or respect them past how much they have influenced their craft. I mean, I totally understand why they are revered as masters, when you look at it from a gateway or influence perspective, but to still be revered as metal gods long after one has delved into the massive sea of underground metal.. doesn't make a bunch of sense (to me). Where bands like Megadeth and Maiden influenced the ever-loving-shit out of me, and I respect them deeply for that, you'll never see me screaming their band name at another band's show, or getting ridiculously excited at the mention of either of them. I dunno, call me pretentious or whatever if you will, but if there's no real musical draw on top of the 'METAL' attitude, then it seems to me like that's a way more shallow association. Now I really REALLY mean no disrespect, I completely understand the subjectivity of musical tastes... and to me, that's what it boils down to. We can likely come to the conclusion that if it's violent attitude related, then I'm likely never going to really 'get it'. The feelings that I would personally associate to metal are much more closer related to brotherhood, inspiration, thought-provocation. I prefer beautiful or brutal to angry or primal. Plus, as a musician, I'm primed to appreciate technicality or boundary-pushing over anything else. Not to mention I like shit like kittens, wine, nature walks, and cuddling. :cool:

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:38 am

Due to this conversation, I am now going to listen to the God Hates Us All album. :headbanger:

It's probably not considered among their best but that particular album is the one I like the most because it was the one that was out when I was starting to get into some forms of metal and it really hit me in my primal/aggressive/angry teenager side. :deathhorns:

by **WizardBeast** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:41 am

viathyn wrote:Marlo: thanks for breaking down your reasoning! I can definitely relate to how you can latch on to something that carries emotional importance. I've got a few bands that are like that for me.

Laura: haha, thanks for defending my right to enjoy my own 'stupid-ass' bands

rwalters: If the main draw really is a violent, fuck-you-up, mosh attitude, then it seems like it's more escapist than anything. Just because my 'stupid-ass' wishlist doesn't feature any thrash, doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music; I've just seen a lot of the bands several times. To relate this to the 'big four' if you will, they were one of my main gateways into metal as a young teenager. I loved the other three, but could never get into slayer. Now, you may be right about me not having that fuck-you-up attitude. To be honest, I hate moshing. I connected with the other bands musically, just as I've connected with hundreds of others. Slayer just doesn't seem to me like it's a musician's band.. I'm curious about how many musicians listen to slayer or respect them past how much they have influenced their craft. I mean, I totally understand why they are revered as masters, when you look at it from a gateway or influence perspective, but to still be revered as metal gods long after one has delved into the massive sea of underground metal.. doesn't make a bunch of sense (to me). Where bands like Megadeth and Maiden influenced the ever-loving-shit out of me, and I respect them deeply for that, you'll never see me screaming their band name at another band's show, or getting ridiculously excited at the mention of either of them. I dunno, call me pretentious or whatever if you will, but if there's no real musical draw on top of the 'METAL' attitude, then it seems to me like that's a way more shallow association. Now I really REALLY mean no disrespect, I completely understand the subjectivity of musical tastes... and to me, that's what it boils down to. We can likely come to the conclusion that if it's violent attitude related, then I'm likely never going to really 'get it'. The feelings that I would personally associate to metal are much more closer related to brotherhood, inspiration, thought-provocation. I prefer beautiful or brutal to angry or primal. Plus, as a musician, I'm primed to appreciate technicality or boundary-pushing over anything else. Not to mention I like shit like kittens, wine, nature walks, and cuddling.

i am so much like you in musical taste Jake! except not quite so much power metal. other than that, you captured my thoughts brilliantly! mmm, hugs and kitties and nature walks...

i've had plenty of fun at slayer shows, and moshed a ton as a younger adult, but i always preferred Testament and Megadeth to Slayer. those things "fucked me up" with aggression plenty, AND provided me with technical satisfaction. Same with the band Death.

i love plenty of bands that are BRUTAL as hell... Beyond Creation, Atheist, Blotted Science, Meshuggah. VERY VERY VERY aggressive! we just have different taste, but there's a lot of aggression in metal, and i love it, i just usually want it to be tightly played and well written, too.

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:42 am

viathyn wrote:Where bands like Megadeth and Maiden influenced the ever-loving-shit out of me, and I respect them deeply for that, you'll never see me screaming their band name at another band's show, or getting ridiculously excited at the mention of either of them.

I've definitely seen that be almost exclusive to Slayer fans. :lol:

In my experience, the people who go the most apeshit during shows are the ones in Slayer shirts. Consequently, many of them tended to be douchebags. Obviously, not all Slayer fans are douchebags but it seems that all douchebags are Slayer fans. :cool:

At any rate, I've never seen Slayer live and would like to experience it just once.

viathyn wrote:Not to mention I like shit like kittens, wine, nature walks, and cuddling.

Don't we all?

by **viathyn** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:53 am

WizardBeast wrote:
i am so much like you in musical taste Jake! except not quite so much power metal. other than that, you captured my thoughts brilliantly! mmm, hugs and kitties and nature walks...

i've had plenty of fun at slayer shows, and moshed a ton as a younger adult, but i always preferred Testament and Megadeth to Slayer. those things "fucked me up" with aggression plenty, AND provided me with technical satisfaction. Same with the band Death.

i love plenty of bands that are BRUTAL as hell... Beyond Creation, Atheist, Blotted Science, Meshuggah. VERY VERY VERY aggressive! we just have different taste, but there's a lot of aggression in metal, and i love it, i just usually want it to be tightly played and well written, too.

Yeah we have many many very similar tastes, the power-metal side of me is really the thing that I got into after I was into a lot of the gateway thrash. It's the happy side of everything, because everyone needs some form of uplift, right? I would thing though that my taste has more of a tendency to melody, rather than 'power metal stylings'. I very rarely listen to pure power metal, generally just a fusion or melodic version of some other sub-genre. In fact, Viathyn's new album is by NO MEANS a power metal album, but there are instances in which you can tell that some of it was certainly influenced by that sort of thing.

I share your sentiments about Testament, Megadeth, Death vs. Slayer. You've summed that up much more succinctly than I could.

Your last sentence as well is excellent, that sums up something I forgot. I like every single one of the bands you listed there, and I'll be damned if those, among others that I listen to, aren't aggressive. The key is that it's musical as well!

Anyways, Rhia, you and I always tend to see eye-to-eye on most things. Can't wait to have some beers with you the next time I see ya.

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:56 am

mooyagi wrote:Due to this conversation, I am now going to listen to the God Hates Us All album.

It's probably not considered among their best but that particular album is the one I like the most because it was the one that was out when I was starting to get into some forms of metal and it really hit me in my primal/aggressive/angry teenager side.

Hmmmm. Listening to this album now after getting into so much more metal makes me realize this thing kinda sucks. I was such a dumb teenager. :lol:

by **viathyn** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:01 am

mooyagi wrote: At any rate, I've never seen Slayer live and would like to experience it just once.

For me, I had been a casual listener of slayer for years, and when I got to see them live for the first time, they were headlining the Tuska festival in Helsinki. They essentially followed a swath of humble, tight, technical, light vs aggressive, simple vs thought-provoking bands (this was the first time I had seen dimmu, dream evil, tyr, kiuas, norther, behemoth, nightwish, etc etc.)... and the aforementioned 'SLAYER' attitude stuck out like a sore thumb. I left after four songs, simply disappointed that after all this time I really didn't get it.

HOWEVER, if you're one of those people that can associate with the 'mosh' attitude, then all the power to ya, bro!

Website · by **pablov8** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:06 am

Although I love Slayer, I can understand a musician not liking it, since Kerry's solos sound mainly like a screaming cat or something similar to that squealing sound.
Slayer is more about the violent attitude of its music, if you don't like that in your metal you probbly won't like them.

by **rwalters** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:21 am

viathyn wrote:
The feelings that I would personally associate to metal are much more closer related to brotherhood, inspiration, thought-provocation. I prefer beautiful or brutal to angry or primal. Plus, as a musician, I'm primed to appreciate technicality or boundary-pushing over anything else.

What's wrong with a little attitude? Why do you think so many "untalented" bands make it? They bring an attitude to their music that pushes them over the top. Look at the entire punk movement for examle. You're looking for refinement and sophistication in a subgenre that was built on neither.

I also take offense to you comment about "after delving through underground metal, you can't understand how you could still revere your old favorites." Dude, most of the underground bands you've listed that will never enjoy any success whatsoever and not be remembered in 10-15 years. They don't matter. These bands have limited runs for 3 albums and that's it. These bands could never even come close to touching Megadeth's run of Peace Sells through Countdown to Exinction. That's 4 albums in a row that just destroy anything. Whose touching those 4 albums with bands you are listening to now? It'll never happen.

Also with Megadeth, how big are you on Peace Sells? I don't really see a huge difference from worshipping Peace Sells and then worshipping most old Slayer albums. An album like Peace Sells was on fire and still holds up today. Just an unbelievable disc.

P.S. God Hates Us All is Slayer's worst album. You guys talk to the German contingent on the cruise? Those guys make you look like the biggest posers on earth. I appreciated the one guy calling me a fag for saying I like Children of Bodom. :lol:

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:24 am

viathyn wrote:
mooyagi wrote: At any rate, I've never seen Slayer live and would like to experience it just once.

For me, I had been a casual listener of slayer for years, and when I got to see them live for the first time, they were headlining the Tuska festival in Helsinki. They essentially followed a swath of humble, tight, technical, light vs aggressive, simple vs thought-provoking bands (this was the first time I had seen dimmu, dream evil, tyr, kiuas, norther, behemoth, nightwish, etc etc.)... and the aforementioned 'SLAYER' attitude stuck out like a sore thumb. I left after four songs, simply disappointed that after all this time I really didn't get it.

HOWEVER, if you're one of those people that can associate with the 'mosh' attitude, then all the power to ya, bro!

That's a pretty good lineup :shock:

I can get into the Slayer attitude if I'm seeing a band like Slayer and I know what to expect. Hell, I get into a Korpiklaani attitude when I see bands like Korpiklaani. It's like Slayer attitude but much happier and dancing jigs instead of moshing. :lol:

Definitely was into the mosh thing more when I was younger but now I prefer to avoid it for the most part.

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:26 am

rwalters wrote:P.S. God Hates Us All is Slayer's worst album. You guys talk to the German contingent on the cruise? Those guys make you look like the biggest posers on earth. I appreciated the one guy calling me a fag for saying I like Children of Bodom.

Yikes! Guess I didn't see those guys. Seriously, there were douchebags like that on the cruise calling you names for liking a band on the damn cruise?

God Hates Us All may very well be their worst album but it had meaning for me since it was a gateway album into metal.

by **WizardBeast** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:28 am

mooyagi wrote:
rwalters wrote:P.S. God Hates Us All is Slayer's worst album. You guys talk to the German contingent on the cruise? Those guys make you look like the biggest posers on earth. I appreciated the one guy calling me a fag for saying I like Children of Bodom.

Yikes! Guess I didn't see those guys. Seriously, there were douchebags like that on the cruise calling you names for liking a band on the damn cruise?

God Hates Us All may very well be their worst album but it had meaning for me since it was a gateway album into metal.

i had fun with any germans i met, they were drunk and loud and didn't insult me, anyway! :bangers:

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:30 am

WizardBeast wrote:
mooyagi wrote:
rwalters wrote:P.S. God Hates Us All is Slayer's worst album. You guys talk to the German contingent on the cruise? Those guys make you look like the biggest posers on earth. I appreciated the one guy calling me a fag for saying I like Children of Bodom.

Yikes! Guess I didn't see those guys. Seriously, there were douchebags like that on the cruise calling you names for liking a band on the damn cruise?

God Hates Us All may very well be their worst album but it had meaning for me since it was a gateway album into metal.

i had fun with any germans i met, they were drunk and loud and didn't insult me, anyway!

I also had no problems with any Germans I met. I figured rwalters was referring to specific people he ran into.

by **rwalters** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:31 am

It was a casual dinner conversation :lol:

I didn't find it insulting at all. Just how dudes talking to each other.

I'm not much better. I wouldn't have been caught dead watching Hammerfall..........

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:32 am

rwalters wrote:It was a casual dinner conversation I didn't find it insulting at all. Just how dudes talking to each other.

I'm not much better. I wouldn't have been caught dead watching Hammerfall..........

Ah okay. I read more into the post than was necessary then. :oops:

But, but, but.... Hammerfall was awesome! :lol:

by **rwalters** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:36 am

I'd rather watch Disturbed.

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:41 am

Sing it with me now

Hearts on fire
Hearts on fire
Burning, burning with desire

:lol:

by **WizardBeast** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:49 am

rwalters wrote:I'd rather watch Disturbed.

shit! hammerfall vs. disturbed. that is a TOUGH one.

is run far, far away an option?

by **rwalters** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:10 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K9jBL2syJ8

Vs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htKY2oD85rs

Make your choice! (I picked the best possible Disturbed song I've heard)

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:16 am

rwalters wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K9jBL2syJ8

Vs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htKY2oD85rs

Make your choice! (I picked the best possible Disturbed song I've heard)

If that Hammerfall video isn't corny enough, try the curling version :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAtBVRFD_Zg

by **rwalters** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:22 am

First video is worse. That curling vid reminds me of Black Dahlia Murder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N15i1bKnTA

by **mooyagi** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:28 am

rwalters wrote:First video is worse. That curling vid reminds me of Black Dahlia Murder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N15i1bKnTA

Hilarious

A friend (and former cruiser) had an awesome idea for black metal bowling. Sadly, we didn't have time to do it but we were gonna make a music video (presumably to an Immortal song) of us bowling in corpse paint and doing various ridiculous black metal things.

by **Laura** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:36 am

Jake - "lame-ass bands" totally rule! :cool:

rwalters - I like your "wearing your Slayer hat" comment - I get the context of your post (and the "lame-ass bands" reference) better now. :headbanger:

And I agree 1000% with your comments about attitude, quality of musicianship (or lack there of in some cases - haha) when it comes to punk music. Being a big fan of many of the early punk bands in their early days (especially The Sex Pistols, The Ramones, The Dead Kennedys, and Black Flag) - to the teenage/young adult version of me at the time - much (probably most) of the appeal was the attitude and the raw & aggressive quality. Ha - And I *still* love that music so many years since I first heard it. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I'll still spin classics like Never Mind the Bollocks when I'm I'm 80 years old. :mrgreen:

So, I assume that a lot of the die-hard Slayer fans are getting off on - that is - digging

that quality in Slayer (attitude, raw, "fuck you up" aggression) - I *totally* can relate to that kind of appeal. As I said earlier in response to Marlo's post, I'm not a huge Slayer fan by any means, yet I do own Reign in Blood, Christ Illusion, & World Painted Blood (and listen to them on occasion), plus I have seen them live twice in recent years - once abroad and in my hometown - I thoroughly enjoyed both gigs.

Listening to Angel of Death right now - that is one helluva amazing song.

by **viathyn** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:48 pm

rwalters wrote:What's wrong with a little attitude? Why do you think so many "untalented" bands make it? They bring an attitude to their music that pushes them over the top. Look at the entire punk movement for examle. You're looking for refinement and sophistication in a subgenre that was built on neither.

I also take offense to you comment about "after delving through underground metal, you can't understand how you could still revere your old favorites." Dude, most of the underground bands you've listed that will never enjoy any success whatsoever and not be remembered in 10-15 years. They don't matter. These bands have limited runs for 3 albums and that's it. These bands could never even come close to touching Megadeth's run of Peace Sells through Countdown to Exinction. That's 4 albums in a row that just destroy anything. Whose touching those 4 albums with bands you are listening to now? It'll never happen.

Also with Megadeth, how big are you on Peace Sells? I don't really see a huge difference from worshipping Peace Sells and then worshipping most old Slayer albums. An album like Peace Sells was on fire and still holds up today. Just an unbelievable disc.

P.S. God Hates Us All is Slayer's worst album. You guys talk to the German contingent on the cruise? Those guys make you look like the biggest posers on earth. I appreciated the one guy calling me a fag for saying I like Children of Bodom.

I never said anything is wrong with a little attitude, I mean if you read the post I wrote to Rhia up there somewhere, I certainly do listen to a lot of aggressive bands, but (as I've stated multiple times before) FOR ME there needs to be that extra something. Never once did I say anything about bands being 'untalented', I just outlined that indeed certain bands put less of a focus on musicianship. As for the punk movement, that's where I started out before metal. I was into The Casualties and The Exploited (and for the more commercial stuff, bands like Rancid and NoFX and such), where attitude certainly is a lot of it. All I'm saying is that opinions and tastes change.. by the time I was into metal having 'just' attitude didn't cut it for me anymore. As for refinement and sophistication, well, fucking nothing was built on that. That car you drive? The iphone in your pocket? The computer you're typing on? Man, times change. That's not really a relevant argument.

As for your taking offence to one of my comments... well I specifically made sure that I was telling you about how it was MY opinion and how if affected ME. You can be offended by shit on the internet until the cows come home, but I was just giving my side to something that I openly addressed to the community. Of course I still revere my old favorites. Of course you do too. But to still think that a certain band or bands are the be-all-end-all of the genre seems silly to me. I will always worship bands like Led Zeppelin and such that originally led me down this path... but fuck, I wasn't alive when they were popular, and I can't even begin to imagine the sheer number of how many similar and amazing underground bands there were at the time. Were they the best at their craft? Probably fucking not. Does that make them any less revered? Nope.

Now, when you start bringing things to the table like this "Dude, most of the underground bands you've listed that will never enjoy any success whatsoever and not be remembered in 10-15 years. They don't matter. These bands have limited runs for 3 albums and that's it.", that's where we differ GREATLY. You seem to put a lot of emphasis on commercial success and popularity. I don't give half a fuck if any of the bands I listen to right now are remembered, the point is that they make an impression on my life and my tastes as I am now. In a bunch of ways, all of the bands I listen to or have listened to have changed my perspective and outlook in small ways, and generally made my life better. That means infinitely more to me than whether or not they sold a million albums. It isn't a dick-measuring contest, it's art (and it's subjective). As for a band touching the PS(AWB)-CTE run of megadeth albums, well, yes of course that's an amazing run. But it's not the eighties anymore. Metal bands don't headline stadium tours. It's the digital age and the age of rock stars is over. I will be surprised if any metal band from here on out experiences popularity and fame like the big bands of the eighties.

As for Peace sells, I think that's a great album. Megadeth will likely never put out songs as raw or effective as Good Mourning/Black Friday or My Last Words ever again. But megadeth has the musical element. There was a certain technicality that they evolved with that shined through especially on (in my opinion) their magnum opus, Rust in Peace. Then again, I love it when bands change. I like seeing the evolution through a band's career as they grow and experiment, even if it's something that somewhat flops like Metallica's last twenty years. Why? Because people change. Music evolves, and people don't want to adhere to the same thing forever.

Anyways, this has kind of digressed from the main curiosity I had. I was looking for some musical perspective on why slayer is so popular among metalheads. I understand the attitude thing, I understand the escapist, rebellious youth and raw power, but I was looking if anyone had a real connection with the music or a real emotional connection with the band (a la Marlo), not criticism about my music tastes (or why the bands I like don't matter) from someone who is butthurt that I don't like their favorite band. I understand slayer is important to you and others... I really just wanted to know why. If it's the attitude thing, then I'm totally ok with that and will concede that it's unlikely that I'll ever be a huge fan. But it looks like they're doing ok... the absence of one not-so-angry metalhead surely can't hurt them or their fans.

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