[KDibildeaux]

Hahah well I do think our cruises have a bit more property damage due to how many drunk people are onbroad but so far I don't think there's been anything too terrible

[doomguy]

In our cabin Kevin had to sleep on one of the bottom bunks just so he wouldn't break the top bunk and kill whoever was sleeping underneath him.

[KevinP]

In our cabin Kevin had to sleep on one of the bottom bunks just so he wouldn't break the top bunk and kill whoever was sleeping underneath him.

And I slept on the top bunk on Barge

[cowboy71]

And Statsman could tell us how many categories have sold out after which announcements. I think the most sections were sold out when the tickets came on sale, so that was veterans, not folk fans (sure, there might've been some in there, but you get the idea). I did however notice that there was one category back on available after the Arkona announcement - does that mean that folk metal sell cabins back to UMC?

That'd imply an immediate causal relationship that I'm not so sure really holds (i.e. people only book based on the latest announcement). Maybe statsman and I could play with the numbers enough and come with an econometric model for that, but that'd depend on the data we had...

And as much as you hate Arkona, just check out the wishlists. Most of us had them in ours, and not just the more vocal folk metal fans, but more of what you'd call the "Variety" crew.

Agreed - another couple of categories have been marked as sold out post the Delain/Heidevolk announcement. Does that mean anything?

[X-Thor]

And Statsman could tell us how many categories have sold out after which announcements. I think the most sections were sold out when the tickets came on sale, so that was veterans, not folk fans (sure, there might've been some in there, but you get the idea). I did however notice that there was one category back on available after the Arkona announcement - does that mean that folk metal sell cabins back to UMC?

That'd imply an immediate causal relationship that I'm not so sure really holds (i.e. people only book based on the latest announcement). Maybe statsman and I could play with the numbers enough and come with an econometric model for that, but that'd depend on the data we had...

And as much as you hate Arkona, just check out the wishlists. Most of us had them in ours, and not just the more vocal folk metal fans, but more of what you'd call the "Variety" crew.

Agreed - another couple of categories have been marked as sold out post the Delain/Heidevolk announcement. Does that mean anything?

Seriously, man, we should really work on a system to monitor this kind of things. We have insufficient data (because we only know if a certain category is either sold out or not), but I'm sure we could do something cool. Maybe we can talk about that later

[torpedo20]

Good people,
let's just agree that we ALL would like to see a VARIETY of metal genres represented, I think that's why we all love 70k cruises in the 1st place.

As it stands now, it is not the case.
Hopefully, the next 13 announcements will strike the right balance for all of us on the cruise

And, some eager folk who weren't on Barge should probably not make any assumptions about things that did happen.
Having been to all of them, Barge to Hell IMHO was >>> 70k '012 and that's with both Overkill and Annihilator onbroad the latter!
It's been brought up and discussed here already why Barge didn't sell out. Yes, the timing of it was way off (early December is a rough time to travel for many); personally, I just went on the leap of faith and because I missed my friends. The late announcements and cancellations (Oh Hypocrisy, why thou did me wrong?) didn't help either. Still, every single person I had crossed paths with on Barge was having such an amazing time and things simply couldn't have been any better!

For some Annihilator fans out there (yours truly included):
the band won't be playin on the cruise unfortunately since the band took a prolonged break after the last cruise. Jeff was touring Europe with the guitar clinics and that's about it. I'll try to (politely) pester Mr. Waters about the future plans for his band (been 2 years since their last album). Canada awaits!

Since the 1st cruise my top 3 priorities have changed somewhat
1. meeting old buddies and having beers
2. watching favourite bands shows and,
3. meeting new friends and getting drinks together

For all you 1st timers that order should be reversed!

Really looking forward to seeing you all again next month on 70k '013.

[vikingbitch]

Folk/power metal fans are buying the cruise tickets and not destroying the ship. That's a win-win.

Tell that to the Norwegians. Seriously. I'm not even in the slightest kidding. Spend just two hours with those crazy bastards. Double dare

In any case, I wager incidents that damage property (however slightly) are common to Royal Caribbean. Maybe they thought "Ha, that's nothing. Shoul've seen what those assholes clubbers did last week!"

And that DID happen. I was talking to one of the bar tenders on the ship and they were ecstatic to have us. Apparently the week before we got on the ship they did the Bud Light cruise which was apparently a complete disaster. He went on and on about the differences in behavior despite alcohol consumption.

Having been to all of them, Barge to Hell IMHO was >>> 70k '012

Couldn't agree more. Blew the last 70K out of the water for me personally. Have fun on 70K

[X-Thor]

Like I said, I want variety, but won't complain if the cruise ends being folk/power skewed. I'll go to the next BTH to compensate!

[Memnoch]

^^Very well said, torpedo.
I'm not sure how it can be misunderstood so that if people more into the extreme genres of metal complain about the announcements and demand more variety it translates into extreme metal fans wanting only their own personal favourites onbroad?
For me the first cruise wasn't too good lineup-wise, I only had a handful of hands I wanted to see, but the difference was that there were only a handful of bands I wanted to avoid at all costs too. And to group us all who don't like the current lineup is just stupid and shows no real insight into the metal community. For example, me and Stach, neither of us like the lineup, but there might not be a single band common to our wishlists. So, it's not like only one genre is under-represented.

And yes, I've been known to have fun even at a Sabaton gig - not in the slightest bit due to the music - so I do know that I will have fun on the boat with new and old friends. I would however like to catch a few bands as well. I'd never travel all the way to the Americas because of bands - we already have a plethora of festivals in Europe and for the cost of this trip I can do three or four festivals during summer in different countries in Europe. Where this cruise separates from the normal festivals is the people. Because the costs are high, the drunken assholes are a very small minority and also the median age of the people is much higher - more people of my age and older.

Aah, seems I lost my train of thought already. Well, yes, I think I covered all already.

[X-Thor]

^we already have a plethora of festivals

You get extra points for using that word!

[Master Killer]

How can anyone say that there is no variety in the line-up...? Come on people.

I for one would love to see more Thrash bands in the 2013 line-up, right, but I also remember the first year where like 1/3 of the line-up were Thrash bands and a lot of people were complaining about too much Thrash... Seriously, I remember comments like: If they announce one more Thrash band I am going to cancel. Bullshit. LMAO

Probably 2013 is more heavy on the Folk Metal. Maybe the year after it will be Death Metal or whatever.

But no-one can seriously say that there is no variety. If one wants to see 40 bands of the same genre, 70000tons is not the right festival to go to.

I will have the greatest week of the year, I already know that and I will book again for 2014 without even knowing one band, because I know it will be a blast and I also know that there will be several highlights in the line-up for me, maybe one year more, one year less. For me seeing all my friends again is the headliner of 70000tons anyway. And I hope this will stay like this for many years to come!

[X-Thor]

Let's go to the facts:

Bands and their genres, as defined by the Metal Encyclopedia

Anacrusis - Thrash Metal (1986-1990), Progressive Metal (1991-1993)
Angra - Power/Progressive Metal
Arkona - Pagan/Folk Metal
Delain - Melodic/Symphonic/Gothic Metal
Die Apokalyptischen Rieter - Death/Folk Metal (early), Heavy Metal/Hard Rock (later)
Doro - Heavy Metal
Dragonforce - Power Metal
Ensiferum - Viking/Folk Metal
Evergrey - Progressive/Power Metal
Flotsam and Jetsam - Power/Thrash Metal
Gotthard - No Results (probably because they are hard rock )
Heidevolk - Folk/Viking Metal
Helloween - Power/Speed Metal
Helstar - Power/Speed Metal
Immolation - Death Metal
In Flames - Melodic Death Metal (early), Modern Metal (later)
Kreator- Thrash Metal
Lacuna Coil - Gothic Metal/Rock (early), Alternative Rock (later)
Metal Church - Heavy/Power/Thrash Metal
Nile - Brutal/Technical Death Metal
Rage - Heavy/Speed/Power Metal
Sabaton - Power Metal
Svbway to Sally - Folk/Medieval Metal
Tiamat - Death Metal (early), Gothic/Atmospheric Metal/Rock (later)
Turisas - Folk/Symphonic Metal
TÝR - Progressive/Folk Metal
Unexpect - Avant-garde/Progressive Metal

So, 9 Power Metal bands, 7 Folk Metal ones, 4 in the Thrash Metal department, 4 Prog Metal, 5 Death Metal*, 2 Symphonic Metal and 2 Gothic Metal bands.

From this point of view (assuming the Metal Archives' classification is correct), the cruise is indeed varied, but is definitely skewed towards the power/folk demographic (a total of 16 bands fit into that category). I'm too tired to repeat this excercise, but it'd be goot to know how were the previous years'.

All I can say is that the genre that is seriously underrepresented right now is black metal.

* Yes, five including In Flames and Die Apokalyptischen Rieter. Also, the 9 power metal bands include Helstar, Flotz and Metal Church, so I'd say that the error is normally distributed and thus it's OK.

[Master Killer]

Die Apolkalyptischen Reiter a Death Metal band...?

And out of all the Classic Metal acts like Doro and Metal Church you make what? Power Metal bands??? You can't be serious.

[cowboy71]

Nice work x-thor.

IIRC I performed a similar breakdown for previous cruises.

I'll see if I can dig it up :)

2012 Breakdown - no pissing in my pocket about "Band X is totally NOT genre Y!!!". This is just to give an idea:

2012
10 Thrash - Meghora, Diamond Plate, Whiplash, Tankard, Overkill, Coroner, Channel Zero, Atheist, Annihilator, Exciter
9 Power - Virgin Steele, Stratovarius, Riot, Kamelot, Hammerfall, Gravedigger, Edguy, Amorphis, Vicious Rumours
6 Death - Suffocation, Pestilence, Kataklysm, God Dethroned, Cannibal Corpse, Massacre
4 Black - Venom, Samael, Moonsorrow, Dark Funeral
3 Symphonic - Tristania, Therion, Nightwish
3 Melodeath - Sapiency, Orphaned Land, CoB
2 Folk - In Extremo, Eluveitie
2 Doom - Candlemass, My Dying Bride
1 Sludge - Crowbar
1 Rock - Pretty Maids
1 Pirate - Alestorm

[Memnoch]

Well, I can mostly talk about the death metal side and the classification of some bands as death metal is, well, wrong. Die Apokalyptischen Reiter used to be death metal in their earlier albums, but have changed their style completely, so counting them as death metal is almost an insult. I put them down as a one-setter, only to see if they play any of their old songs live (say, from the Allegro Barbaro album). In Flames - and most of the Swedish or Göteborg (Gothenburg) melodic death metal - has very little if anything to do with death metal. Beats me why the genre is called melodic death metal in the first place. If anything, it should be called melodic thrash metal as there are a bit more similarities between them. And Tiamat of today has nothing to do with death metal either.
So, we have two death metal bands onbroad. And even out of the two the other, Nile, is of a more specific genre (technical death metal) that quite a few death metal enthusiasts don't like.

I'd say that almost none of the bands formed after, say, 1990, can be grouped together with the older genre pioneers as almost none of the younger bands play strictly one genre, it's all crossover metal now. And that makes it a lot more difficult for someone not into a certain sub-genre to determine the fine differences of styles. I don't claim to understand anything about folk metal and lump them all into one group. To me the distinctive quality is the folk melodies - which I don't like 90 % of the time. Don't get me wrong, I like plenty of folk music and neo-folk and stuff, but to me the folk side for most metal bands is just like the folk elements are glued on afterwards and not built in the music itself. Bathory did it right. Primordial is doing it right. Moonsorrow is doing it right.

[cowboy71]

Yeah the genre thing kinda pisses me off - I'm just providing these breakdowns because its turned into a bit of a pissing contest around here.

So, here I go with 2011:

13 Thrash - Agent Steel, Cripper, Death Angel, Destruction, Dusk Machine, Exodus, Forbidden, Nevermore, Sanctuary, Sodom, Testament, Voivod, Witchburner
6 Power - Blind Guardian, Circle II Circle, Gamma Ray, Iced Earth, Sabaton, Sonata Arctica
5 Melodeath - Amon Amarth, Arsis, Blackguard, Dark Tranquillity, The Absence
4 Folk - Ensiferum, Finntroll, Korpiklaani, Tyr
4 Metal - Rage, Raven, Saxon, Uli Jon Roth
3 Death - Malevolent Creation, Obituary, Unleashed
2 Black - Marduk, Twilight of the Gods
2 Doom - Moonspell, Trouble
1 Symphonic - Epica
1 Industrial - Fear Factory
1 Pirate - Swashbuckle

[cowboy71]

And so, the Statistics!! Breakdown by percentage of total lineup. Definitely a large percentage drop in the representation of Thrash from 2011 to 2013, but it would only take for the next 2 bands announced to be thrash, and the proportion of Thrash bands would be the same as 2012.

2013
22% Power
22% Folk
14% Thrash
14% Metal
11% Death
7.5% Symphonic
3.5% Progressive
3.5% Melodeath

2012
21% Thrash
21% Power
12% Death
9% Black
7% Symphonic
7% Melodeath
5% Folk
5% Doom
3% Sludge
3% Rock
3% Pirate

2011
31% Thrash
14% Power
12% Melodeath
10% Folk
10% Metal
7% Death
5% Black
5% Doom
3% Symphonic
3% Industrial
3% Pirate

[Memnoch]

Which is the third death metal band for 2013? Nile and Immolation are the only ones I can think of. In Flames is on the melo-death portion already, so death metal should be down to 7 %.

[cowboy71]

I lumped Tiamat in there as I was completely unfamiliar with them. So yeah - they should probably be in a 'goth' or 'doom' category....

[VorpalBunny]

I lumped Tiamat in there as I was completely unfamiliar with them. So yeah - they should probably be in a 'goth' or 'doom' category....

Are you an engineer, a statistician, a mathematician or just a lover of numbers?

[VorpalBunny]

I lumped Tiamat in there as I was completely unfamiliar with them. So yeah - they should probably be in a 'goth' or 'doom' category....

Are you an engineer, a statistician, a mathematician or just a lover of numbers?

He's the statsman!

Does he need this on a shirt, or do you think a sheet of paper and sticky tape will do?

[cowboy71]

^^ I believe spandex, a mask and a cape are required!

BWAHHAHAHA - I like it :)

[Memnoch]

So, based on the announcements so far and sold out sections, what are the chances of you actually wearing your Statsman costume onbroad?

[EvilDan]

I actually found Barge to have FAR fewer douchebags than 70K 2012. However, it looks as though their were 1/3 the people, so maybe it's just a numbers game.

[cowboy71]

So, based on the announcements so far and sold out sections, what are the chances of you actually wearing your Statsman costume onbroad?

Tell you what, if Andy adds Magnum to the lineup - give the stat signal and I'll be there in costume!

[KevinP]

Slap some vegemite on this and he'll be ready to go

[Cardest]

Slap some vegemite on this and he'll be ready to go

"IT RUBS THE LOTION ON IT'S SKIN" Silence of the Lambs, vegemite style!!

[Cardest]

What an odd debate to have. Who's metal and what isn't.

We all need bands that you don't have any interest in.
We all need a 'break' from standing all day on a ship.
Sleep off the hangovers and chill out in the pool, rub more
vegemite over the naughty bits if that tickles ya fancy, whilst
bands play you lost interest in.

Refresh, recharge the batteries for the bands you like!
Regardless if you think they are 'metal' or not.



Mummy, where's fluffy?

[Inquisitor]

I guess I'll chime in now, and no disrespect meant to anyone here.

Where as my usual tastes fall into the Prog\Power\Folk category, I for one enjoy to mix up the line up as much as possible. Expanding your horizons is never a bad thing, Kev got me to listen to MDB before 70K 2012, and they were one of the best sets last year for me.

Assuming people will act a certain way based on the style of metal they listen to, to me is as ignorant as people who don't listen to metal say that we are a bunch of degenerates.

[Inquisitor]

How about some punk on the ship?
Have lacked punk on every ship so far

The Clash, Sex Pistols, and Rancid are as punk as I get. Old DKM before they got huge outside of Boston as well.

[Inquisitor]

what variety brings:
Different people - I think this is nice
Some time over for chatting with friends, eating, sleeping, drinking, etc - I think this is nice

What streamline brings:
Less of the above - not so nice


If I were to go to a cruise for the bands alone, I certainly would do this somewhere else where my total would not end up at 3k USD

E.g. the close-up cruise where I loved 4 out of 7 bands, entire trip cost me something like 200 USD
I can go to rather many of them cruises for the cost of one overseas flight, hotels and the UMC cruise

So what is big reasons for me to go for the fourth time in January?
The people on the ship, the atmosphere on the ship, the unreal feeling of it all, but actually strange as it might sound, a bit to watch bands too


I see plenty of comments from all over, made in good fun or serious or for causing debate, but some are
* I wouldn't mind a cruise dedicated to folk and power
- I would actually, because the variety disappears

* You ppl got plenty of heavy stuff on Barge already!
- Yes we did, and I loved it, but I hated the fact that missing the variety split up the crowds
- And, this is said over and over, but the counter fact still comes up: we were told the variety wouldn't change on 70k due to the fact we got Barge and the cruises were close

I'm not asking for the last 13 bands to be my top 10 bands plus 3 more runners up
I am not asking for the last 13 to be all death, melodeath and black
I am however asking for the variety we've had and that I feel we were promised, on which I booked blindly for my third 70k cruise

If the last 13 are bands I do not care about, fine, I'll go for the people and the party
But I would enjoy it so much more if we got, well, pretty much what I keep on rambling about above

These cruises take up a serious amount of my vacation time, as well as my travel funds, but I love them, that's what I keep doing it

I rejoined this forum after Barge when I realized how much I had missed the people, and wanted to talk some more before 70k
But the discussions lately and the general feeling I get once back is that I perhaps should have stayed away from the forum and just enjoyed the cruise instead...


As for discussions on what is metal, what is not, etc, well I commented on that in my previous point


But as a somewhat of a conclusion, everyone has a right to their opinion on bands right?
Everyone has the right to complain, right?
And of course everyone has the right to complain about the ones that complain, right?

Just don't get too much in your face about peoples personal taste, as to what bands are metal or not, and above all please don't make judgement on shit you have only heard someone talk about, i.e. what happened on Barge if you weren't even there.

+1

[stoverkill]

I actually found Barge to have FAR fewer douchebags than 70K 2012. However, it looks as though their were 1/3 the people, so maybe it's just a numbers game.

totally agree with this. But yeah, it might have been just fewer people.... numbers game.

[STACH100]

As far as genres go, for me the only one that matters is GOOD metal.
For me this line up so far has 6 in that category. 22%! Not good.

Good for Andy because my bar tab will skyrocket, music wise not so good for me.

[Stained Class]

I actually found Barge to have FAR fewer douchebags than 70K 2012. However, it looks as though their were 1/3 the people, so maybe it's just a numbers game.

totally agree with this. But yeah, it might have been just fewer people.... numbers game.

Mmmm I dono, I found the opposite. Felt like there was a tiny bit more douchebaggery and jackassery. Didn't exactly ruin the experience or nething though, just something I kinda noticed.

[X-Thor]

Die Apolkalyptischen Reiter a Death Metal band...?

And out of all the Classic Metal acts like Doro and Metal Church you make what? Power Metal bands??? You can't be serious.

Hey, I went to Metal Archives. And there is a footnote on the genre classification. If you didn't read it, here's the short version: errors appear to distribute normally (e.g. two or three bands counted as death metal that clearly were not, but two or three bands were counted as power metal, which clearley they were not), so it's not that big of a problem.

As for the rest, my only point was that this is a varied cruise, but certainly skewed towards the "light" side of metal. However, as our resident statsman has pointed out, it wouldn't take that many announcements to bring the mean (and median) more to the center.

And, again, I've been asking for black, death and thrash metal announcements since I joined the forums back in July. It's just that I won't complain if I don't get the bands I want. As Greg said, it's kind of a first-world-problem thing. "I can afford to go in a luxury cruise with 2K metalheads and 40+ bands, which I might get to know and even jam with, and I only like one quarter of the line-up so far!". I mean, I see where you are coming from, and maybe if the situation was reversed I'd be complaining too (unlikely, though, since I also love thrash and death and some black bands, and quite honestly I'd say that half of the current line-up would be eoungh for me).

Well, I can mostly talk about the death metal side and the classification of some bands as death metal is, well, wrong.

See above

And even out of the two the other, Nile, is of a more specific genre (technical death metal) that quite a few death metal enthusiasts don't like.

You could say the same thing about Power Metal or even Folk Metal. Maybe you don't like growls, so that leaves Arkona and Ensiferum out. Maybe you like classic Power Metal (ie Helloween), but not Angra or not Fabio's voice. It happens. If we were to put every band in their incredibly specific sub genre, we'd end with only one or two per category. I'm not kidding, I know of people who like Angra but hate Rhapsody (what will the think of having Fabio singing?) or people who don't like Sabaton but love Helloween (or viceversa). So, you know, to each his own.

That being said, I'd very much like to see another tech death announcement. And a melodeath. And a black one. And maybe some thrash.

[Stained Class]

I'd very much like to see another tech death announcement. And a melodeath. And a black one. And maybe some thrash.

The moral of the story is...THIS



Gorod, Be'Lakor, Immortal and Heathen.

Hey that gives me a fun idea for a list. brb, I'll b in the list thread.

[pablov8]

Yes!! Heathen!!!

[STACH100]

Heathen would fall into the Good category.

[X-Thor]

I support Heathen for 70K!

[torpedo20]

I was -ing to Lee on Barge that we need Heathen onbroad!

I fully endorse that addition to 70k '013

Also we're missing Industrial, Doom(heck, Barge had only Novembers Doom onbroad; that was kinda shocking) and Progressive(I'd love to get at least one band in that category).