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Headliner Bands
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    KevinP
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by KevinP » Thu May 06, 2010 3:54 pm

    Memnoch wrote:It doesn't really matter to me what the headliners are since none of my favourites are "bigger" bands. Or could anyone see Dying Fetus or Primordial headlining? :D
    Ah, Bruce Dickinson(without Maiden that is) might be ok.


    Dying Fetus as a headliner? Shoot me now if that happens. Talk about "run of the mill" death metal. Granted they have fans, but so does Six Feet Under. Doesn't make them any good though. I'm all for more death metal (holding out hope) but let's make it quality bands (Obituary & Amon Amarth are a great start).

    I wouldn't be interested in Dickinson by himself. That's like eating ice cream without the fat and sugar :P
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    Jöhn&Melönius
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Jöhn&Melönius » Thu May 06, 2010 4:15 pm

    I saw Manowar in NYC at Wetland around '96. Wetlands has a 500 person capacity and I got front row at the side of the stage so Karl Logan was literally right in front of me blazing away the brand new 'Today is a Good Day to Die'. We had to stand and wait for hours before the opener got there, Stephen Percy of Ratt, yay. That guy is a giant cock.

    I had gone alone because everyone I knew was a pussy. After one of the best shows I ever made it to, was over, I had missed my train so I was hanging out with a guy I knew from Brooklyn. His little brothers friend saw a pizza delivered to the bus and then when a guy came out to throw the box out this kid was all like '"Is that Manowars pizza box?!" So the guy gave him the box. They waited around the tour bus and were asking the manager to meet them and he let them on the bus. They hung out for a bit with everyone except Joey who stayed in the back. He got the pizza box signed by the whole band (Joey too) and had the biggest smile on his face the whole way back to Brooklyn.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Blacktophat » Thu May 06, 2010 5:28 pm

    I can't wait to see what they have lined up for the Headliners. Its going to be off the charts if the line up so far has any indication. :shred: :metalguy: :death: :viking: :beerhorns:
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Dark Dreams » Thu May 06, 2010 7:29 pm

    KevinP wrote:
    Metalwrath wrote:Ah i love them too but like a lot of people have mentioned on their official forums they are the only band that don't tour their own country.Which i think is fucking rediculous.


    The simple reason is that no one in the USA gives a rats pattot about them. They couldn't sell out my living room, let alone a small club. But they can go to Europe and put on a huge stage production for thousands of people. Go figure. I've never seen them live but would like to.

    Then again, Germans love David Hasselhoff :lol: :lol: :lol:


    Here you go: two things I don't get about Germans: Why they like Hasselhoff and Manowar...
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by grimmy82 » Thu May 06, 2010 7:58 pm

    Dark Dreams wrote:
    KevinP wrote:
    Metalwrath wrote:Ah i love them too but like a lot of people have mentioned on their official forums they are the only band that don't tour their own country.Which i think is fucking rediculous.


    The simple reason is that no one in the USA gives a rats pattot about them. They couldn't sell out my living room, let alone a small club. But they can go to Europe and put on a huge stage production for thousands of people. Go figure. I've never seen them live but would like to.

    Then again, Germans love David Hasselhoff :lol: :lol: :lol:


    Here you go: two things I don't get about Germans: Why they like Hasselhoff and Manowar...


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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Memnoch » Thu May 06, 2010 8:51 pm

    Memnoch wrote:It doesn't really matter to me what the headliners are since none of my favourites are "bigger" bands. Or could anyone see Dying Fetus or Primordial headlining? :D
    Ah, Bruce Dickinson(without Maiden that is) might be ok.

    KevinP wrote:Dying Fetus as a headliner? Shoot me now if that happens. Talk about "run of the mill" death metal. Granted they have fans, but so does Six Feet Under. Doesn't make them any good though. I'm all for more death metal (holding out hope) but let's make it quality bands (Obituary & Amon Amarth are a great start).
    I wouldn't be interested in Dickinson by himself. That's like eating ice cream without the fat and sugar :P

    Well, IMHO, Dying Fetus' last two albums have been great. Six Feet Under has and most likely will always be crap. Obituary is ok, but wouldn't call them my favourites - I'm more into Morbid Angel and Death and the likes - you know, keep it either brutal or technical or, better yet, both. And, I never offered DF as a headliner, on the contrary, me neither could see them headlining.
    Amon Amarth has recorded the exact same album for, what is it now, ten times in a row? And they play at every single festival in Europe, be it a polka festival or some kid's birthday, you're guaranteed to see Amon Amarth there. Nope, not into them at all.
    And on Bruce Dickinson, he's last three solo albums are a lot better than what Maiden has released in over twenty years. Granted, Maiden would be nice to see even if they are quite expensive, but musically speaking, BD as BD band would be much, much better.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Metalwrath » Fri May 07, 2010 4:16 am

    Jöhn&Melönius wrote:I saw Manowar in NYC at Wetland around '96. Wetlands has a 500 person capacity and I got front row at the side of the stage so Karl Logan was literally right in front of me blazing away the brand new 'Today is a Good Day to Die'. We had to stand and wait for hours before the opener got there, Stephen Percy of Ratt, yay. That guy is a giant cock.

    I had gone alone because everyone I knew was a pussy. After one of the best shows I ever made it to, was over, I had missed my train so I was hanging out with a guy I knew from Brooklyn. His little brothers friend saw a pizza delivered to the bus and then when a guy came out to throw the box out this kid was all like '"Is that Manowars pizza box?!" So the guy gave him the box. They waited around the tour bus and were asking the manager to meet them and he let them on the bus. They hung out for a bit with everyone except Joey who stayed in the back. He got the pizza box signed by the whole band (Joey too) and had the biggest smile on his face the whole way back to Brooklyn.

    Interesting story.
    Yeah i've only ever met Karl Logan.He's quite honestly one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.We were at a train station after the first MCF and he saw us wearing Manowar tshirts and just walked up chanting 'Manowar Manowar living on the road'
    Then he just stood around talking to us for a while and took a picture with us.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by raising_iron » Sun May 09, 2010 3:40 pm

    Memnoch wrote:
    Memnoch wrote:It doesn't really matter to me what the headliners are since none of my favourites are "bigger" bands. Or could anyone see Dying Fetus or Primordial headlining? :D
    Ah, Bruce Dickinson(without Maiden that is) might be ok.

    KevinP wrote:Dying Fetus as a headliner? Shoot me now if that happens. Talk about "run of the mill" death metal. Granted they have fans, but so does Six Feet Under. Doesn't make them any good though. I'm all for more death metal (holding out hope) but let's make it quality bands (Obituary & Amon Amarth are a great start).
    I wouldn't be interested in Dickinson by himself. That's like eating ice cream without the fat and sugar :P

    Well, IMHO, Dying Fetus' last two albums have been great. Six Feet Under has and most likely will always be crap. Obituary is ok, but wouldn't call them my favourites - I'm more into Morbid Angel and Death and the likes - you know, keep it either brutal or technical or, better yet, both. And, I never offered DF as a headliner, on the contrary, me neither could see them headlining.
    Amon Amarth has recorded the exact same album for, what is it now, ten times in a row? And they play at every single festival in Europe, be it a polka festival or some kid's birthday, you're guaranteed to see Amon Amarth there. Nope, not into them at all.
    And on Bruce Dickinson, he's last three solo albums are a lot better than what Maiden has released in over twenty years. Granted, Maiden would be nice to see even if they are quite expensive, but musically speaking, BD as BD band would be much, much better.


    Agreed on most points, except for Amon Amarth. Yeah, they've kept their sound close to their chests with little variation from album to album, but they're one of the few bands that that's okay with me because they're so damned awesome at what they do, therefore I don't care if they don't change...looking forward to Once From The Golden Hall Pt. 8 when it comes out. As far as Bruce Bruce goes, him doing his solo albums would be killer, Accident of Birth and especially The Chemical Wedding are absolutely godly, and you won't hear any of that stuff at an Iron Maiden show.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Memnoch » Sun May 09, 2010 7:43 pm

    ^I wasn't too serious on Amon Amarth. Granted, I don't like them much, and they seem to be performing on every single festival or venue in Europe. On the variation thing, hey, my favourite band is Primordial. :D

    I'd rather see even Amon Amarth than most Finnish bands though. Rotten Sound, Deathbound or Swallow the Sun would be nice.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by zummazumma » Mon May 10, 2010 1:52 pm

    Do you think System Of A Down could headline??
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by KevinP » Mon May 10, 2010 1:54 pm

    Maybe Anthrax as the headliner? I never liked Bush (the singer), so Joey coming back is great news.

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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by KevinP » Mon May 10, 2010 1:57 pm

    zummazumma wrote:Do you think System Of A Down could headline??


    Do you think anyone dropping over 1 grand per person who wants to see non-commerical metal really wants to see SOAD? They don't fit into this cruise lineup at all.

    Let them do a show with Linkin Park, Chevelle, Devildriver, etc, etc, etc.

    P.S. - I don't necessarily loathe SOAD, but the thought of them on this cruise does make me ill :evil:
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Chopper » Mon May 10, 2010 2:54 pm

    i agree
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by TOM CRUISE » Mon May 10, 2010 3:15 pm

    Chopper wrote:i agree


    same here and that post gains major posts in my eyes.

    fuck that soad band. tool as well.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by onenight » Mon May 10, 2010 3:56 pm

    I normally don't bash other bands because to each his own, but system of a down fucking blows!!...period!

    I hate that band with a passion.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Schluckspecht666 » Tue May 11, 2010 1:42 pm

    onenight wrote:I normally don't bash other bands because to each his own, but system of a down fucking blows!!...period!

    I hate that band with a passion.


    I don't bash bands in general. Tastes are different.

    If I don't like what I hear, I change the channel, put another CD in at a concert I just go to the bar. :givebeer:
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by HitemHard » Sat May 15, 2010 5:54 pm

    I have no idea who the headliners are going to be but the way the agent is booking bands I dont think we have much to worry about
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by BlackToothGrin » Mon May 17, 2010 4:36 pm

    zummazumma wrote:Do you think System Of A Down could headline??


    I don't think so... I don't think thats really the direction it's going in.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Schluckspecht666 » Tue May 18, 2010 5:05 am

    BlackToothGrin wrote:
    zummazumma wrote:Do you think System Of A Down could headline??


    I don't think so... I don't think thats really the direction it's going in.


    That's not going to happen. Otherwise my bar tab is getting really high... :trashdrink: :trashdrink: :trashdrink: :trashdrink: :trashdrink: :trashdrink:
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Max_Rockwell » Tue May 18, 2010 8:11 am

    Someone go fetch Arch Enemy and/or Carcass.

    As far as headliner bands, I can't even think of who they could possibly get.
    With Ronnie James Dio gone (R.I.P) we are at a great loss for a big time old school sound from a headliner, and i wouldn't want
    Ozzy anywhere near this cruise.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Disaster Area » Tue May 18, 2010 8:31 am

    Max_Rockwell wrote:Someone go fetch Arch Enemy and/or Carcass.

    As far as headliner bands, I can't even think of who they could possibly get.
    With Ronnie James Dio gone (R.I.P) we are at a great loss for a big time old school sound from a headliner, and i wouldn't want
    Ozzy anywhere near this cruise.



    I am sure thinking Motorhead is a real "old school" potential headliner, and/or W.A.S.P.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by KevinP » Tue May 18, 2010 8:53 am

    Disaster Area wrote:
    Max_Rockwell wrote:Someone go fetch Arch Enemy and/or Carcass.

    As far as headliner bands, I can't even think of who they could possibly get.
    With Ronnie James Dio gone (R.I.P) we are at a great loss for a big time old school sound from a headliner, and i wouldn't want
    Ozzy anywhere near this cruise.



    I am sure thinking Motorhead is a real "old school" potential headliner, and/or W.A.S.P.


    I'd be shocked and horrified if WASP was on this. I don't even think they anywhere close to being METAL. Always thought they were a shitty glam cock rock band.

    I'd rather see somelike like RATT if we are going to have those type of bands (but please, NONE of these types)

    More :deathmetal: :deathmetal: :deathmetal:

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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Disaster Area » Tue May 18, 2010 9:04 am

    KevinP wrote:
    Disaster Area wrote:
    Max_Rockwell wrote:Someone go fetch Arch Enemy and/or Carcass.

    As far as headliner bands, I can't even think of who they could possibly get.
    With Ronnie James Dio gone (R.I.P) we are at a great loss for a big time old school sound from a headliner, and i wouldn't want
    Ozzy anywhere near this cruise.



    I am sure thinking Motorhead is a real "old school" potential headliner, and/or W.A.S.P.


    I'd be shocked and horrified if WASP was on this. I don't even think they anywhere close to being METAL. Always thought they were a shitty glam cock rock band.

    I'd rather see somelike like RATT if we are going to have those type of bands (but please, NONE of these types)

    More :deathmetal: :deathmetal: :deathmetal:

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


    jeezus, please no Ratt. Pearcy has no voice left (not that he ever had much to begin with) last two times we saw them they were baaaaad. W.A.S.P., glam? I'd have a tough time lumping Headless Childrenor Crimson Idol in with anything from Cinderella, Poison, or Warrant... Cherry Pie = Chainsaw Charlie, mmmm No...

    Bet you REALLY be shockified if Twisted Sister shows as a headliner! HAHAHAAH they seem to only do festivals and on-offs these days so this is right up their ally! :lol:

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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by KevinP » Tue May 18, 2010 9:20 am

    I'd be puzzled if Twisted Sister were on this. The only people OPEN MINDED enough for that would be you and Shoreslayer. :mrgreen:

    WASP are like ugly hideous glam I guess. The red headed stepchild to the pretty boys. Blackie makes Mick Mars look normal. :lol:

    To me this cruise is about real metal. I know that's a touchy subject for some and I don't really have the time or energy to get into a big debate on that, but I think you know what I mean.

    The only mainstream band that I would actually want on this is Alice in Chains. But I don't even think they fit the "theme" or intent of this venture.

    Otherwise, leave the commercialized/over the hill/completely irrelevant type stuff for some old fart cruise.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Disaster Area » Tue May 18, 2010 9:30 am

    KevinP wrote:Otherwise, leave the commercialized/over the hill/completely irrelevant type stuff for some old fart cruise.


    ooops, I think Saxon might take offense to the "over the hill" part, and Raven, and Testement and Uli...

    oh, not to mention TOM CRUISE :lol: :lol: :lol:

    relevancy is pretty subjective, but I agree it really is a pointless discussion. Guess we'll just have to wait and see where the chips fall. Good news is there is plenty else to do on the ship if some irrelevant old flatulence is playing, Like shuffleboard!
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by KevinP » Tue May 18, 2010 10:03 am

    Disaster Area wrote:
    KevinP wrote:Otherwise, leave the commercialized/over the hill/completely irrelevant type stuff for some old fart cruise.


    ooops, I think Saxon might take offense to the "over the hill" part, and Raven, and Testement and Uli...

    oh, not to mention TOM CRUISE :lol: :lol: :lol:

    relevancy is pretty subjective, but I agree it really is a pointless discussion. Guess we'll just have to wait and see where the chips fall. Good news is there is plenty else to do on the ship if some irrelevant old flatulence is playing, Like shuffleboard!


    I don't think any of those bands are over the hill. I was thinking along the lines of "old and useless". Old and USEFUL (still being a good band) negates being over the hill since you are still relevant.

    Okay, enough with English class. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by ShoreSlayer » Tue May 18, 2010 10:59 am

    Saw Twisted Sister open for Maiden on the Powerslave tour way back when and they were a great crowd pleaser with lots of energy. No complaints at all at the time but I saw them perform more recently on some east coast US tv show like good morning america or something and Dee's voice was shot and the band sounded pretty uninspired. Could have been due to venue and audience but I'd hate to see anyone come along who didn't have their shit together.

    WASP sold out the Commodore here a year or 2 ago and it was great to finally see them. I think they'd fit perfectly fine but I know many people say Blackie's a dick who wouldn't wanna be so close to so many fans for 5 days. From the sounds of things, I don't think he'd have to worry about being hounded by too many of this crew though :lol: More likely they'd send him to his cabin.

    Somehow, I've missed Motorhead every time they've been through Vancouver so they'd be a perfect headliner for my tastes. King Diamond also but many have argued why he too would be opposed to this setting so I'm not too hopeful about that.

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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Disaster Area » Tue May 18, 2010 11:09 am

    Captain Metal described Blackie as looking like an ageing, bloated transvestite (or some similar thing) I agree, def a little road-worn . Plus, he may be just a little cukoo, he was constantly talking to himself (or some imaginary friend) the whole time during the performance last time we saw them... I could deal with his eccentricity again though! :lol:
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by KevinP » Tue May 18, 2010 12:01 pm

    Based on no inside info, I'm thinking that Motorhead will be a headliner and maybe even Manowar.

    Manowar is tricky in the sense that here in the US they wouldn't be a headliner, but in Europe and other parts of the world they would easily be one. And since there will be such a large international contingent onboard, they would technically qualify as such even though it's on or near American shores.

    I always felt that Heaven & Hell were far too large for this event and would be cost prohibitive to get booked.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by Captain Metal » Tue May 18, 2010 12:14 pm

    Oh man, I remember that crazy look (crazier then usual) in Blackie's eyes when he started looking at the ceiling and seeing his lips moving like he was having a conversation with God, Jesus, Shiva or whoever. It was pretty out there. I hear he actually has a priest traveling with him to absolve him of his sins every night. Where have thou gone 'O Rock N Roll rebel? :lol:
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by vmeiser » Fri May 21, 2010 12:30 pm

    Oh man, does any know for certain Maiden will not on the cruise? .....Then my fingers are crossed till they annouce priest.. I already paid in full.. a little nervous now.. :roll:

    Wasp - would be a very nice add.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by ShoreSlayer » Fri May 21, 2010 1:16 pm

    vmeiser wrote:Oh man, does any know for certain Maiden will not on the cruise? .....Then my fingers are crossed till they annouce priest.. I already paid in full.. a little nervous now.. :roll:

    Wasp - would be a very nice add.


    I think a quick study of economics 101 would help put your thoughts to rest. But who am I to be the crusher of dreams? Keep on reachin' for those stars young soul, reach for them stars!!
    So far at least, 2011, 2012 & 2015 were enough for me
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by vmeiser » Fri May 21, 2010 2:12 pm

    ShoreSlayer wrote:
    vmeiser wrote:Oh man, does any know for certain Maiden will not on the cruise? .....Then my fingers are crossed till they annouce priest.. I already paid in full.. a little nervous now.. :roll:

    Wasp - would be a very nice add.


    I think a quick study of economics 101 would help put your thoughts to rest. But who am I to be the crusher of dreams? Keep on reachin' for those stars young soul, reach for them stars!!




    In other words - they are both too spendy for the bill?.. Mmm. Not that I'm not a fan of line up already, I would just be a little upset considering the overall cost. Also, from what I understand they are "holding out" on something much larger. If its Metallica I'm gonna shit a brick.. ish.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by debborah1 » Fri May 21, 2010 2:38 pm

    I could see how they would want a "larger" band to be a surprise.....
    but at the same time, the "promoter" part of me would think they would do that sooner,
    as to make sure they sell out the ship....just my opinion.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by vmeiser » Fri May 21, 2010 3:00 pm

    debborah1 wrote:I could see how they would want a "larger" band to be a surprise.....
    but at the same time, the "promoter" part of me would think they would do that sooner,
    as to make sure they sell out the ship....just my opinion.



    I was also thinking the same thing... ? Hopefully the best is yet to come. Even if a larger band is not added.. there are many more to go. Testament - was the surprise that sold me. Pffftthhhhh.. dammit. I'm stilll crossing my damn fingers.

    Thank you for the input.
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by debborah1 » Fri May 21, 2010 3:02 pm

    vmeiser wrote:
    debborah1 wrote:I could see how they would want a "larger" band to be a surprise.....
    but at the same time, the "promoter" part of me would think they would do that sooner,
    as to make sure they sell out the ship....just my opinion.



    I was also thinking the same thing... ? Hopefully the best is yet to come. Even if a larger band is not added.. there are many more to go. Testament - was the surprise that sold me. Pffftthhhhh.. dammit. I'm stilll crossing my damn fingers.

    Thank you for the input.

    Oh my pleasure...you know us women.....we always have to put our 2 cents in! lol
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by KevinP » Fri May 21, 2010 3:08 pm

    vmeiser wrote:In other words - they are both too spendy for the bill?.. Mmm. Not that I'm not a fan of line up already, I would just be a little upset considering the overall cost. Also, from what I understand they are "holding out" on something much larger. If its Metallica I'm gonna shit a brick.. ish.


    So you'd be upset if a band the stature of Maiden is NOT on the bill :? :? :? The cost is insanely reasonable for what we are getting. You're not sitting in a field in the middle of nowhere for 4 days watching 40 bands from 1/2 mile away.

    You have access to 80 shows in intimate/somewhat intimate venues, free food for 4 days, plus all the other cruise ammenities. Not to mention all of the EXTRA stuff that is sure to go on (impromtu jams, naked chicks running around, etc.)

    Okay, I made up the part about the naked chicks, but I think you get my point.

    Instead of dreaming about bands with a high booking fee, put all your eggs in the naked chicks basket (or naked dudes if that's more your style).

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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by debborah1 » Fri May 21, 2010 3:15 pm

    KevinP wrote:
    vmeiser wrote:In other words - they are both too spendy for the bill?.. Mmm. Not that I'm not a fan of line up already, I would just be a little upset considering the overall cost. Also, from what I understand they are "holding out" on something much larger. If its Metallica I'm gonna shit a brick.. ish.


    So you'd be upset if a band the stature of Maiden is NOT on the bill :? :? :? The cost is insanely reasonable for what we are getting. You're not sitting in a field in the middle of nowhere for 4 days watching 40 bands from 1/2 mile away.

    You have access to 80 shows in intimate/somewhat intimate venues, free food for 4 days, plus all the other cruise ammenities. Not to mention all of the EXTRA stuff that is sure to go on (impromtu jams, naked chicks running around, etc.)

    Okay, I made up the part about the naked chicks, but I think you get my point.

    Instead of dreaming about bands with a high booking fee, put all your eggs in the naked chicks basket (or naked dudes if that's more your style).

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    whoa! bring on the naked chics!.....(i mean broads lol)
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by ShoreSlayer » Fri May 21, 2010 3:26 pm

    KevinP wrote:Okay, I made up the part about the naked chicks, but I think you get my point.


    :shock: WHAT? I thought that part was guaranteed!!! REFUND! REFUND!!!
    So far at least, 2011, 2012 & 2015 were enough for me
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    Re: Headliner Bands

    by KevinP » Fri May 21, 2010 3:27 pm

    debborah1 wrote:I could see how they would want a "larger" band to be a surprise.....
    but at the same time, the "promoter" part of me would think they would do that sooner,
    as to make sure they sell out the ship....just my opinion.


    Since by their own admission this is a small scale operation (only a few people working for them) if they announced a big time band they would be swarmed and overloaded with bookings. People would get pissed off and would be an administrative nightmare.

    It would seem easier to announce moderate size bands and sell cabins at a consistent pace. Then when they are maybe 4-6 months away from event time they could announce something really big (if that is indeed the plan). This way they are covered on both ends. If they sell most of the cabins or all of them before a big announcement, they are all set. If they don't sell out, then the big announcement would surely sell the remainder available.

    Since we are still 7-8 months away there is no need to rush anything and "blow their load" this early (that's never a good thing :P ). Every time a new band is announced, all the news sites mention it, so it's free promotion for them every 2 weeks. Keeps it fresh in people's mind.

    But then again, what the hell do I know. :mrgreen:
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