[KK Cruiser]

I was thinking that not all bands are going to be big and there will be some unknowns joining the fray. There are some bars and small areas where they might play.

I wonder what this will do for their careers? I hope they can sell CDs so I can check out some new music.

I love discovering a young band and having them as "my" band. Remember when Iron Maiden fit into your back pocket and they were "your" band? Now they are selling shoes and shit, and that's cool but I like to support the up and comers. Hopefully they can jam with some stars and start some shit happening and maybe even BLOW THEM AWAY!

[Metalwrath]

Most so called 'up and coming bands' don't deserve any fucking support.One thing i have noticed that has plagued the metal scene over the more recent years if bands getting know due to support from frinds who don't actually like their music but come to the gig as support and try to make it look like the band has a big audiece which is entirely untrue.
I've listened to a lot of new bands and they are fucking terrible.Unfortuntatly somewhere over the last 10 years most bands have lost the ability to creativly make music of their owjn and instead end up recylcing maerial of old established metal bands.

[ShoreSlayer]

Now THERE'S a great illustration of the 2 opposite ends of 1 spectrum!

[Chopper]

I was told from the beginning there was not going to be any up and coming bands. just established acts.

[Captain Metal]

Actually, that's not entirely true. Aside from the 40 bands, there are also plans for a handful of unsigned bands to play as well. A nice opportunity for some hopefully worthy unknowns.

I already submitted a couple of bands I know for this, months ago. The full details of this will be made clear in due course.

[TOM CRUISE]

Bring Tankard along so I can do the cruise crawl with them

[Captain Metal]

Now THAT would indeed rule

[KK Cruiser]

How about that band that won the Wacken Metal Battle? The Fading from Israel? They are great and certainly up and coming.

I guess I am old, but I need to SEE a band first, there is too much computer editing cheating going on now..

[Dutchguy-Tim]

there is going to be karoke right?
i say: leef je uit, or go nuts

[Captain Metal]

Yes, there will be karaoke AND open mic festivities in two separate areas of the ship, the latter being the more interesting of the two I believe.

[Dark Dreams]

I was told from the beginning there was not going to be any up and coming bands. just established acts.

Where did you read that? I hope that there will be some GOOD new up and coming bands in the line-up!

[Schluckspecht666]

Yes, there will be karaoke AND open mic festivities in two separate areas of the ship, the latter being the more interesting of the two I believe.

It probably depends on how drunk everyone is...

[Dutchguy-Tim]

which will be plenty i gues

[Michaelage]

no... i think after the owner of the boat reads this forum it will be an alcohol free cruise....

[Dutchguy-Tim]

hahaha NO WAY, he'll make less money as most of those drinks are included

aw c'mon mickey. were ARE going to sing "the beer will flow" oftwel, het beer zal weer vloeien

[Michaelage]

im never gonna sing never gonna give up... and like hell that i will sing some stupid dutch song nobodie knows...

[Dutchguy-Tim]

w'll see mike, w'll see

[Element0s]

Most so called 'up and coming bands' don't deserve any fucking support.One thing i have noticed that has plagued the metal scene over the more recent years if bands getting know due to support from frinds who don't actually like their music but come to the gig as support and try to make it look like the band has a big audiece which is entirely untrue.
I've listened to a lot of new bands and they are fucking terrible.Unfortuntatly somewhere over the last 10 years most bands have lost the ability to creativly make music of their owjn and instead end up recylcing maerial of old established metal bands.

Easily one of the most backwards things I've read in the past while, especially the first bit. You sound like the kind of guy who would never go to a gig unless your own band was playing it.

I would love to see a handful of unsigned bands/newer bands that were only signed recently his some stages, I'd love to get my own group on board this event, for example. Amidst all the massive established talent it's always refreshing to see some new blood ripping things up, taking a shot at the big times. It's the same when I see bands on tour. I have much more respect for bands and tours that pick out a local opening group as opposed to just dragging along 2 or 3 support bands with them. Half the time, the support groups are the same on every tour, and the other half of the time the support groups are abyssmal and don't even fit the bill stylistically. There's lots of great groups across the world who are unsigned or relatively unknown for a variety of reasons but are perfectly talented or put on a great live show.

[cg138]

I'm on Metalwrath's side on this one, though not entirely. Of course what he said doesn't pertain to every unsigned band, but I would agree that for the most part, almost all of the local "metal" bands (though it may obviously vary by your location) are just a badly attempted clone of an existing band. I would imagine anyone else from south florida agrees with this.

[viathyn]

Jeff does have a point though. Yes, there are a lot of bands out there that need work, and of course you have to sift through a lot of bands that may be cookie-cutter or maybe just not ready yet.. but there are countless bands out there that are talented and deserving of some form of recognition. These are the bands that slip under the radar for those people that don't want to recognize unsigned talent. Every band has to start somewhere, yes? I LOVE hearing new talented bands because that gives me something new to listen to!

[Dutchguy-Tim]

just don't forget that every band is great right away you guys.
as with everything you have learn and grow.

but some bands will suck forever!

[KK Cruiser]

At least some bands have the guts to go at it balls out! I admire tenacity and perseverance.

[Captain Metal]

Concerning cg138's comments, I have to agree that there are a number of so-called "Metal" bands infesting the scene these days (Kalakai, Upheavel and Edge Of Anger come to mind, among others). This is nothing new around here. These "Meathead Metal" bands (as I refer to them) have been a blight for years.

Luckily, there are a number of other quality bands around these parts, so that's where my support goes. So, what are your thoughts in particular about this? By the way, do you happen to be IN a band? Your profile pic would make it seem so.

[ShoreSlayer]

Nothing better in the world and life for me than skeptically checking out some opening act I've never heard of and walking away with my mind blown and needing to hunt down their cd as soon as possible.

Also, much prefer when bands have more say in choosing their tour mates as opposed to being saddled with some label mates that don't compliment their sound at all.

(to throw at Tim) and new bands!!

[Pabbicus]

I would say the only good "new bands" I've heard are thrash bands. It's the only subgenre that is consistently putting out new good bands. Bonded By Blood(overrated but not bad,) Municipal Waste, Lich King, Fatal, &c...

[Element0s]

I'm on Metalwrath's side on this one, though not entirely. Of course what he said doesn't pertain to every unsigned band, but I would agree that for the most part, almost all of the local "metal" bands (though it may obviously vary by your location) are just a badly attempted clone of an existing band. I would imagine anyone else from south florida agrees with this.

Oh, I'm not saying that every single local level band is worth your time and you should attend every show you possibly can. But every single band that ever played a set of original tunes started out the same: By playing to their friends and family. At some point, your band will either improve and you'll find that more and more people come to your gigs and you get booked better shows at better venues. If your band sucks (or continues to suck) then you'll notice that, less and less of your friends and family will come out and you won't get booked for shows at bars very often. Generally bands that end up like that break up. As for the originality issue, that's something that has plagued and will forever plague the music scene as long as it exsists, so there's not much to say about that. As someone pointed out earlier, your mileage may vary depending on where you live. However, even the derivative worship bands in town can put on a fun rocking show and deliver some solid tunes!

My point being: Every band has to start somewhere, good or bad. It's not fair to ignore a band simply because they are on a local level (or because you saw them 2 years ago and they weren't very good back then) and it's definitely not fair to condemn a bands' friends/family for being there to support their loved ones.

So, about Samandriel and Viathyn playing some opening sets on the cruise...

[viathyn]

So, about Samandriel and Viathyn playing some opening sets on the cruise...

Well fuck me sideways that would kick ass!

[ShoreSlayer]

So, about Samandriel and Viathyn playing some opening sets on the cruise...

Well fuck me sideways that would kick ass!

Having just listened to Sirenum Scopuli for the 2nd time (going on 3rd) I can't imagine anyone would be disappointed unless it was just not their taste of genre or they demanded only 'known' bands. Honestly, from the little I've heard so far, I'd prefer Viathyn over 1/3 of the bands already booked, and probably some of what's to come as well lol

Speaking of which, when's our next announcement? (oh yeah, wrong thread sorry)....................................................NOT!

[viathyn]

Fuckin' eh man you rule!

You really should check out Jeff's (Element0s) band as well. They kick ass at the whole female-fronted symphonic style, and Jeff can sure play a fucking mean keytar

[Master Killer]

How about that band that won the Wacken Metal Battle? The Fading from Israel? They are great and certainly up and coming.

I guess I am old, but I need to SEE a band first, there is too much computer editing cheating going on now..

The Fading: Great band. However I don't know if they could afford to fly over from Israel.

[Max_Rockwell]

I'm on Metalwrath's side on this one, though not entirely. Of course what he said doesn't pertain to every unsigned band, but I would agree that for the most part, almost all of the local "metal" bands (though it may obviously vary by your location) are just a badly attempted clone of an existing band. I would imagine anyone else from south florida agrees with this.

Oh, I'm not saying that every single local level band is worth your time and you should attend every show you possibly can. But every single band that ever played a set of original tunes started out the same: By playing to their friends and family. At some point, your band will either improve and you'll find that more and more people come to your gigs and you get booked better shows at better venues. If your band sucks (or continues to suck) then you'll notice that, less and less of your friends and family will come out and you won't get booked for shows at bars very often. Generally bands that end up like that break up. As for the originality issue, that's something that has plagued and will forever plague the music scene as long as it exsists, so there's not much to say about that. As someone pointed out earlier, your mileage may vary depending on where you live. However, even the derivative worship bands in town can put on a fun rocking show and deliver some solid tunes!

My point being: Every band has to start somewhere, good or bad. It's not fair to ignore a band simply because they are on a local level (or because you saw them 2 years ago and they weren't very good back then) and it's definitely not fair to condemn a bands' friends/family for being there to support their loved ones.

So, about Samandriel and Viathyn playing some opening sets on the cruise...

Let's be honest though. Pretty much everything has already been done by previous musicians. Rob Zombie mentioned once that in Metal, everything was already done by Sabbath and any bands or musicians after that, just played variations of what they did, whether it'd be slower, faster, backwards, progressive etc...

A lot of "true" metalheads/musicians are quick to shut down the idea that maybe expanding their musicial horizons can bring something new to their music. Whether it'd be picking up or adding a new instrument to their basic 3 instrument set up, or adding elements from different genres of music. I gotta say that the bands that stand out to me today, are the ones that have taken that slight if not huge step outside the known metal music circle, and have expanded their music to the point where you know it represents a lot more than just heavy fast riffing and blast beats. But again, you tell someone who only listens to Immortal, and Celtic Frost to listen to something like Epica, Angra, or Eluveitie, and they'll be extremely fast to shut you down and perhaps even put you and those bands down. It's a real bummer that a lot of metalheads, and I say a lot because there are a lot, have to be like that.

Also, i'm not saying that every one is the same, for those of you who may have taken it the wrong way.

[Element0s]

Let's be honest though. Pretty much everything has already been done by previous musicians. Rob Zombie mentioned once that in Metal, everything was already done by Sabbath and any bands or musicians after that, just played variations of what they did, whether it'd be slower, faster, backwards, progressive etc...

A lot of "true" metalheads/musicians are quick to shut down the idea that maybe expanding their musicial horizons can bring something new to their music. Whether it'd be picking up or adding a new instrument to their basic 3 instrument set up, or adding elements from different genres of music. I gotta say that the bands that stand out to me today, are the ones that have taken that slight if not huge step outside the known metal music circle, and have expanded their music to the point where you know it represents a lot more than just heavy fast riffing and blast beats. But again, you tell someone who only listens to Immortal, and Celtic Frost to listen to something like Epica, Angra, or Eluveitie, and they'll be extremely fast to shut you down and perhaps even put you and those bands down. It's a real bummer that a lot of metalheads, and I say a lot because there are a lot, have to be like that.

Also, i'm not saying that every one is the same, for those of you who may have taken it the wrong way.

Oh no, I agree entirelly. It would be naive of me to think otherwise. My favorite bands are the ones that borrow ideas from across other styles or cross genre boundaries in insteresting ways, be it subtle note selections or different instruments entirelly. Epica and Angra are two favorite groups of mine, for example. But to be fair, in traditional music theory as we are used to it, there are still only 12 notes, and only so many combinations or those notes are going to be listenable. Beyond advancements in music technology opening up new doors, I don't think we'll see anything extremely groundbreaking in the near future. I'd love to be proven wrong, of course.

[ShoreSlayer]

Yeah, you guys are onto it in a big way. It's a very sharply honed double-edge sword though. Read through some of the threads on this board alone and you can see how polarized people become when it comes to their tastes and opinions of various genres and sub-genres.

Many bands that combined traditional metal elements with something new like we saw through the 90's and beyond are slammed as garbage nu-core or mall-core or whatever. And fair enough. I'm not a big fan of what most of those bands did even though there are some that are incredibly talented and have some material that is far and away better than many of their critics could ever create themselves.

Then you get what I sort of think of as traditionalist bands that just worship what's been done and so don't try to expand on it but simply honour it by creating their own material in the same vein. Many listeners wind up appreciating and becoming big fans of these bands while others will condemn them for being unoriginal or merely copying what's been done before.

This sort of shows the lose/lose scenario I think most artists face if they set out trying to please fans, critics or anyone other than themselves.

Then you have what I think we'd all recognize as some of the cutting edges of metal where bands (from Europe mostly) are introducing a wide array of new instruments and traditional, cultural melodies and rhythms into their stuff and coming up with material most of us hadn't heard prior to that. I'm thinking of bands like Svartsot, Finntroll and Tyr but am no expert on them by any means and am sure I've excluded many that others would consider very obvious examples of the same thing. I think also that it won't be too long before we'll begin to see more and more bands employ instruments and themes from Eastern cultures that use notes outside of our traditional Western 12 note scale. Much of this is very foreign (pun required) to our ears and will alienate many listeners but will also likely introduce some amazing potential and result in some real killer tunes. I think this is an inevitable byproduct of our shrinking world.

Finally, and I think these are probably the artists who are most likely to continue to pave the way for some years, we have the bands that are similar to the traditionalists mentioned above but who push the boundaries in many directions. They don't necessarily bring in new instruments or unheard of, crazy time signatures or scales but they're just such well practiced and creative musicians that they find those hidden places inside of what's already been done and move beyond putting their own stamp on a classic sub-genre but take it to places it's yet to go. Tool is not my favourite band by any stretch but they're one of the best examples I can think of right now to illustrate my point. If a friend of yours had never heard them before, how would you describe them? Who can you compare them to? There's maybe a handful of bands that you can say they have elements of this and that but really, there's no other band like them. Some of Danny Carey's drumming is pretty amazing but I think their sound is unique more because of the combination of the talents combined and the very creative songwriting they've been able to achieve. I'm pretty sure any one of those guys could have been part of any old decent and successful metal band on their own. But, like them or not, what they stumbled upon together has really set them apart from the masses. Another much hated band that I think also stands out in a similar way is System of a Down. Or if a more metal example is needed, I'd submit someone like Enditol that Viathyn linked to in the what are you listening to now thread earlier today. I can see these guys coming up with something completely mind blowing in a few years.

So yeah, while pretty much everything has already been done, and there's only so many notes, rhythms and melodies to go around, I think there's still enough room for the cream of the crop to rise to the challenge and give us gifts that we never imagined. Now if only I had the chops and brilliance to be one of 'em

[Max_Rockwell]

Yeah, you guys are onto it in a big way. It's a very sharply honed double-edge sword though. Read through some of the threads on this board alone and you can see how polarized people become when it comes to their tastes and opinions of various genres and sub-genres.

Many bands that combined traditional metal elements with something new like we saw through the 90's and beyond are slammed as garbage nu-core or mall-core or whatever. And fair enough. I'm not a big fan of what most of those bands did even though there are some that are incredibly talented and have some material that is far and away better than many of their critics could ever create themselves.

Then you get what I sort of think of as traditionalist bands that just worship what's been done and so don't try to expand on it but simply honour it by creating their own material in the same vein. Many listeners wind up appreciating and becoming big fans of these bands while others will condemn them for being unoriginal or merely copying what's been done before.

This sort of shows the lose/lose scenario I think most artists face if they set out trying to please fans, critics or anyone other than themselves.

Then you have what I think we'd all recognize as some of the cutting edges of metal where bands (from Europe mostly) are introducing a wide array of new instruments and traditional, cultural melodies and rhythms into their stuff and coming up with material most of us hadn't heard prior to that. I'm thinking of bands like Svartsot, Finntroll and Tyr but am no expert on them by any means and am sure I've excluded many that others would consider very obvious examples of the same thing. I think also that it won't be too long before we'll begin to see more and more bands employ instruments and themes from Eastern cultures that use notes outside of our traditional Western 12 note scale. Much of this is very foreign (pun required) to our ears and will alienate many listeners but will also likely introduce some amazing potential and result in some real killer tunes. I think this is an inevitable byproduct of our shrinking world.

Finally, and I think these are probably the artists who are most likely to continue to pave the way for some years, we have the bands that are similar to the traditionalists mentioned above but who push the boundaries in many directions. They don't necessarily bring in new instruments or unheard of, crazy time signatures or scales but they're just such well practiced and creative musicians that they find those hidden places inside of what's already been done and move beyond putting their own stamp on a classic sub-genre but take it to places it's yet to go. Tool is not my favourite band by any stretch but they're one of the best examples I can think of right now to illustrate my point. If a friend of yours had never heard them before, how would you describe them? Who can you compare them to? There's maybe a handful of bands that you can say they have elements of this and that but really, there's no other band like them. Some of Danny Carey's drumming is pretty amazing but I think their sound is unique more because of the combination of the talents combined and the very creative songwriting they've been able to achieve. I'm pretty sure any one of those guys could have been part of any old decent and successful metal band on their own. But, like them or not, what they stumbled upon together has really set them apart from the masses. Another much hated band that I think also stands out in a similar way is System of a Down. Or if a more metal example is needed, I'd submit someone like Enditol that Viathyn linked to in the what are you listening to now thread earlier today. I can see these guys coming up with something completely mind blowing in a few years.

So yeah, while pretty much everything has already been done, and there's only so many notes, rhythms and melodies to go around, I think there's still enough room for the cream of the crop to rise to the challenge and give us gifts that we never imagined. Now if only I had the chops and brilliance to be one of 'em

You should get yourself a simple keyboard and just hum out whatever comes to your head and try to match the notes in your head with the keyboard. :-p
Always a good way to start, and who knows, maybe you'll find something totally mind blowing.

But in any case, I remember my buddy asking/telling something I still think about today a few years back at a maiden show. He mentioned to me how he always asked himself and if I asked myself, who's going to carry the torch after the maidens, metallicas, priests, motorheads, sabbaths are gone? Of course some of those bands are gone now, but honestly, do we really have any bands out there that are the brand new Maidens. Not in the sense of them being the same genre, but being as innovative and leading metal into something we haven't seen yet?

I mean we have the big mainstream metal bands like Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy, Children of Bodom, In Flames, Cannibal Corpse and so forth, but they really aren't the next maidens, at least to me. And perhaps those are bad examples since they've been around for a bit, but regardless, I'm curious to know who will take metal by the balls like Maiden did, and shove down peoples throats next?

[ShoreSlayer]

You should get yourself a simple keyboard and just hum out whatever comes to your head and try to match the notes in your head with the keyboard. :-p
Always a good way to start, and who knows, maybe you'll find something totally mind blowing.

But in any case...

Hurting my brain trying to determine whether this is a dig or serious but I guess the only way to find out is to ask

[sideways]

in my opinion there will probably never be another Maiden or Priest... but there is still tons of good shit out there that bands are putting out.

For example, check out Lazarus A.D. - they've only been around since '05 or so... only have one album out - The Onslaught (2009).

I saw them live and they were one of the tightest, coolest looking bands I have ever seen. Their drummer fucking head bangs like MAD!

my personal favorite: "Thou Shall Not Fear"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17dUpEP9e6A

[Max_Rockwell]

You should get yourself a simple keyboard and just hum out whatever comes to your head and try to match the notes in your head with the keyboard. :-p
Always a good way to start, and who knows, maybe you'll find something totally mind blowing.

But in any case...

Hurting my brain trying to determine whether this is a dig or serious but I guess the only way to find out is to ask

I was being serious lol. I won't guarantee that it'll work, but always a start.
Could work with an acoustic guitar, but most people who are new to guitar complain and give up because their fingers are too tender :(. Boo hoo, keep playing damn it.

[ShoreSlayer]

Hurting my brain trying to determine whether this is a dig or serious but I guess the only way to find out is to ask

I was being serious lol. I won't guarantee that it'll work, but always a start.
Could work with an acoustic guitar, but most people who are new to guitar complain and give up because their fingers are too tender :(. Boo hoo, keep playing damn it.

Hahah... cool. Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, I've actually been playin guitar for a long time. I was just referencing the fact that overall, but especially compared to the kinds of talents who might stand a chance of creating something completely original and groundbreaking, I'm just not that skilled

[Max_Rockwell]

Hurting my brain trying to determine whether this is a dig or serious but I guess the only way to find out is to ask

I was being serious lol. I won't guarantee that it'll work, but always a start.
Could work with an acoustic guitar, but most people who are new to guitar complain and give up because their fingers are too tender :(. Boo hoo, keep playing damn it.

Hahah... cool. Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, I've actually been playin guitar for a long time. I was just referencing the fact that overall, but especially compared to the kinds of talents who might stand a chance of creating something completely original and groundbreaking, I'm just not that skilled

It's not nearly about skill as it is about desire and passion. :-p
Mozart wasn't very skilled, or at least not technical but he had the passion and drive. I don't think he knew he would be one of the greatest composers before he became one.
Regardless, bring whatever skills you got to the cruise and we'll jam it out. Hopefully they'll let me bring an acoustic, cause I plan to!

[ShoreSlayer]

It's not nearly about skill as it is about desire and passion. :-p
Mozart wasn't very skilled, or at least not technical but he had the passion and drive. I don't think he knew he would be one of the greatest composers before he became one.

Wow... I think this quote could lead to a thread and/or very in depth discussion of it's own.

Not a 'you're wrong/I'm right' statement but I really strongly disagree. I believe that desire and passion can translate into hard work and dedication which, in turn, can increase skill. But I also HAVE to counter with my very strongly held belief that individuals are born falling within an extremely wide range of innate talent. I feel that I was blessed with a great deal of musical passion but next to zero talent I've had to work really hard (on and off over 25 years of playing/writing/singing) just to be so-so while I've met people who've been playing only a couple years and just seem 'gifted' and are doing amazing things musically. A great example of this is that I have a very inaccurate musical ear. Picking out notes to learn songs note for note has always been incredibly challenging. Tab from books helped but it wasn't until I discovered youtube guitar instructional videos that I've been able to learn some great solos properly. Don't get me wrong. I know I could be even better than I am if I'd worked harder, been more disciplined and made more sacrifices. I also could have poured more money into lessons than I have. But I'm certain that the amount of effort, time and cash I've committed would have yielded far more amazing results in the life of someone who was born somewhere further along the spectrum of natural talent.

I don't know Mozart's story inside out but isn't it true that, while he wasn't highly technical, he was tremendously talented from an early age? I may be confusing him with some other classical composer.

Regardless, bring whatever skills you got to the cruise and we'll jam it out. Hopefully they'll let me bring an acoustic, cause I plan to!

Oh, I intend to!! Leaving the ego at the dock and rock the F out without fear

I'm pretty sure they'll let you bring whatever instrument you want to. I'm considering bringing one myself, maybe even an electric, just to have one I'm familiar/comfortable with. I'm hoping to learn more from the organizers about exactly what equipment will be available to us for open stage and poolside jams before leaving. Somebody pack a distortion pedal!!!