[TPH]

Ghost Ship Octavius for me, without hesitation.

[Monmisreal]

Allegaeon will get my vote once the poll comes up. That pyramid lounge set was one hell of a party.

This.

I loved both Avatarium shows, but the Allegaeon show in the Pyramid lounge was awesome.

Yep. The pyramid show made me feel kind of bad for not sticking around for the pool deck set but I couldn't make it that long. What time did that set even start?

[Phoenix]

Damn that's tough... I love Allegaeon, but I HAD heard of them before the cruise. Dalriada was the band that I didn't know and was impressed by the most.

It's difficult not to want to hail science though.

[Danny24601]

Definitely Avatarium for me, with an honorable mention to Ghost Ship.

[klons]

Still don't think either Allegaeon or Avatarium belong in this.

[Godflesh]

Last year, the Cripper Nominees were limited to those bands with under 10,000 listeners on last.fm (of which, there were 11). This year if we used that methodology we would only have 5 contenders - Striker, Witchtrap, Ghost Ship Octavius, Total Death and Touch the Sun.

I would therefore propose setting the 2017 cutoff at 30,000 as this would give us 11 contenders - same as 2016:
29151 DALRIADA
28033 CRYPTEX
27800 ORDEN OGAN
25916 ALLEGAEON
17025 AVATARIUM
14028 MISERY LOVES CO
9090 STRIKER
4869 WITCHTRAP
2185 GHOST SHIP OCTAVIUS
512 TOTAL DEATH
29 TOUCH THE SUN

You forgot NIGHTMARE's sole listener: http://www.last.fm/music/NIGHTMARE+(Grenoble,FRANCE)(Heavy+Power+Metal)

Definitely AVATARIUM for me, total discovery and they were amazing.

[mooyagi]

Allegaeon will get my vote once the poll comes up. That pyramid lounge set was one hell of a party.

This.

I loved both Avatarium shows, but the Allegaeon show in the Pyramid lounge was awesome.

Yep. The pyramid show made me feel kind of bad for not sticking around for the pool deck set but I couldn't make it that long. What time did that set even start?

As Powerglove so eloquently put it, at Fuck You O'clock

[Kingslayer]

Last year, the Cripper Nominees were limited to those bands with under 10,000 listeners on last.fm (of which, there were 11). This year if we used that methodology we would only have 5 contenders - Striker, Witchtrap, Ghost Ship Octavius, Total Death and Touch the Sun.

I would therefore propose setting the 2017 cutoff at 30,000 as this would give us 11 contenders - same as 2016:
29151 DALRIADA
28033 CRYPTEX
27800 ORDEN OGAN
25916 ALLEGAEON
17025 AVATARIUM
14028 MISERY LOVES CO
9090 STRIKER
4869 WITCHTRAP
2185 GHOST SHIP OCTAVIUS
512 TOTAL DEATH
29 TOUCH THE SUN

As Cruachan is ineligible by our last.fm standards, I have no choice but to support my hellraisin' countrymen in Striker

[Phoenix]

Still don't think either Allegaeon or Avatarium belong in this.

Well this is discussion based, can you articulate why you don't think so?

[Monmisreal]

As Powerglove so eloquently put it, at Fuck You O'clock

yea I skipped power glove too. Wouldn't have mind seeing them again but I probably would have fallen asleep.

I'm actually surprised to see some of the bands from the under 30k list played the Alhambra. Would have thought demolition hammer would have like half the listens they actually have and expected Orden Ogan to have a lot more. Especially for a band that was booked to a fest like PPUSA a few years back.

[klons]

Still don't think either Allegaeon or Avatarium belong in this.

Well this is discussion based, can you articulate why you don't think so?

You would

Taking Avatarium as a whole into consideration, you're looking at current/ex members of bands such as Candlemass, Tiamat, Pain and Evergrey. No hope in hell does anything there come close to what this award is meant for. If that were the case, as an example, say Me and That Man (3742 last.fm listeners) were abroad - does anybody in their right mind think Nergal should be eligible to win? I sure don't.

Take them out, then look at the gap between all the lower bands and Allegaeon, almost 12k listeners between them and Misery Loves Co. Allegaeon alone has more listeners than the combined remaining bands.

[captaingabbeh]

Still don't think either Allegaeon or Avatarium belong in this.

Well this is discussion based, can you articulate why you don't think so?

You would

Taking Avatarium as a whole into consideration, you're looking at current/ex members of bands such as Candlemass, Tiamat, Pain and Evergrey. No hope in hell does anything there come close to what this award is meant for. If that were the case, as an example, say Me and That Man (3742 last.fm listeners) were abroad - does anybody in their right mind think Nergal should be eligible to win? I sure don't.

Take them out, then look at the gap between all the lower bands and Allegaeon, almost 12k listeners between them and Misery Loves Co. Allegaeon alone has more listeners than the combined remaining bands.

If you're going that route - and I don't necessarily disagree - shouldn't we take out Ghost Ship Octavius as well? Most if not all of them are vets of well-established bands (such as Nevermore)

[Thrashmania]

Witchtrap!

[Danny24601]

If you're going that route - and I don't necessarily disagree - shouldn't we take out Ghost Ship Octavius as well? Most if not all of them are vets of well-established bands (such as Nevermore)[/quote]

As far as I am aware, Nevermore is not nearly as big or influential as Candlemass, and Avatarium is essentially a side project for the main songwriter from Candlemass (Leif writes all of the music for Avatarium as well). It may also be worth considering that Avatarium is a star's side project AND is really close to the last.fm cutoff, which together may make them less eligible than GSO, who may arguably be something of a side project but are much further from the numerical cutoffs.

[Phoenix]

I agree with gabbeh on this one - I see your point, but if we do that GSO should be removed also. Van is quite the popular musician as well, he was all over the All Star Jam.

As for Allegaeon, does that mean we should take Dalriada, Orden Ogan and Cryptex out as well? They have more listeners than Allegaeon.

For the record I am not trying to be malicious, but since this is decided by committee the committee should agree on the contenders.

[captaingabbeh]

As far as I am aware, Nevermore is not nearly as big or influential as Candlemass, and Avatarium is essentially a side project for the main songwriter from Candlemass (Leif writes all of the music for Avatarium as well). It may also be worth considering that Avatarium is a star's side project AND is really close to the last.fm cutoff, which together may make them less eligible than GSO, who may arguably be something of a side project but are much further from the numerical cutoffs.

Totally disagree on Nevermore - they were one of the bands that people *made* me sit down and start listening to when I began picking up metal guitar (Two words: Jeff Loomis). Hell, when GSO got announced a bunch of people started requesting a Nevermore reunion.

I'd agree with cutting Orden Ogan as well, but that's mostly because I had heard of them multiple times before they were announced.

[Iconix]

I assume Saltatio Mortis must be really popular in Europe and have too many listeners to show up on that list, but I'd never heard of them before and they blew me away.

[bodomdragon]

Last year, the Cripper Nominees were limited to those bands with under 10,000 listeners on last.fm (of which, there were 11). This year if we used that methodology we would only have 5 contenders - Striker, Witchtrap, Ghost Ship Octavius, Total Death and Touch the Sun.

I would therefore propose setting the 2017 cutoff at 30,000 as this would give us 11 contenders - same as 2016:
29151 DALRIADA
28033 CRYPTEX
27800 ORDEN OGAN
25916 ALLEGAEON
17025 AVATARIUM
14028 MISERY LOVES CO
9090 STRIKER
4869 WITCHTRAP
2185 GHOST SHIP OCTAVIUS
512 TOTAL DEATH
29 TOUCH THE SUN

I don't see why we should change the criteria. Considering Orden Ogan or even Allegaeon as cripper award contenders, not matter how much I liked their shows (which I did) sounds kinda crazy to me. So if we only have 5 contenders according to the previous methodology, why change it? 5 candidates is ok.

Otherwise, we could follow the Skipper's criteria, which throws away almost the same bands (replacing GSO by Cryptex), plus Dalriada, which makes perfect sense as I am sure that at least 90% of their fans come from Hungary, making them very unknown elsewhere, and GSO was pretty well known here for what I've read, much more than Cryptex.

I think both options would make sense, but I would certainly NOT increase the fan limit to 30k, that sounds way too much.

[slayergeek]

I think both options would make sense, but I would certainly NOT increase the fan limit to 30k, that sounds way too much.

As much as I would LOVE to vote for Allegaeon, I have to agree with Bodomdragon. I own 3 of thier albums before they were announced. So Andy booked more well known bands this year, that doesn't mean we need to increase the cut off for cripper nominees. Save that honor for the true 'Who the fuck is that' bands

[Phoenix]

I think both options would make sense, but I would certainly NOT increase the fan limit to 30k, that sounds way too much.

As much as I would LOVE to vote for Allegaeon, I have to agree with Bodomdragon. I own 3 of thier albums before they were announced. So Andy booked more well known bands this year, that doesn't mean we need to increase the cut off for cripper nominees. Save that honor for the true 'Who the fuck is that' bands

That does seem reasonable. That just means that Dalriada, a band that was advertised by 70k as being a Cripper award nominee band, would be out of the running. Is that something that would be okay?

[mooyagi]

I'm surprised Dalriada is so unknown. I thought they were a lot more popular. I'm just curious why some are arguing, "I've heard of them so they can't be nominated." Hell, Nightmare won the award and they were formed over 20 years before their first cruise.

[captaingabbeh]

I'm surprised Dalriada is so unknown. I thought they were a lot more popular. I'm just curious why some are arguing, "I've heard of them so they can't be nominated." Hell, Nightmare won the award and they were formed over 20 years before their first cruise.

I think Dalriada is pretty unknown outside of Europe, which is probably why they got slotted in the Cripper category. I don't understand the argument that bands that people have heard of can't be nominated - hell, last year I'd venture a good chunk of the cruise had heard of at least Starkill and Twilight Force before they were announced (even if we all didn't get around to listening to them pre-announcement).

[macamatic]

Allegaeon absolutely destroyed both the pool deck and the lounge (the latter somewhat literally, as a crowd surfer knocked a ceiling tile loose and we couldn't fix it). The former wasn't as rowdy since it was 5am, but the singer having fun with props (in order: Cookie Monster, a giant dildo which he claimed was "to size," and an inflatable shark) made up for it. Definitely getting my vote if they're eligible, but I totally understand if they're not.

[Gratch]

While Allegaeon would certainly get my vote if they are eligible, Witchtrap would come in a close second. They were really damn good.

[Jaimie38]

STRIKER!!!!

[DrinkMoxie]

STRIKER!!!!

Which cabin were you in, again?

[Memnoch]

The whole idea of the award is to award unknown bands, and even I who don't really like most genres of metal have heard of most of these bands before. IMO basing the contenders solely on the last.fm listeners isn't wise. It should be a combination of last.fm and facebook likes.

29151 DALRIADA - 35k
28033 CRYPTEX - 7k
27800 ORDEN OGAN - 53k
25916 ALLEGAEON - 111k
17025 AVATARIUM - 18k
14028 MISERY LOVES CO - 2k
9090 STRIKER - 91k
4869 WITCHTRAP - 23k
2185 GHOST SHIP OCTAVIUS - 7k
512 TOTAL DEATH - 9k
29 TOUCH THE SUN - 400

Dalriada, Orden Ogan, Allegaeon and maybe Avatarium are clearly too big to run. I'd take Striker and Witchtrap out as well, but include Cryptex.

[Godflesh]

People keep forgetting NIGHTMARE!

[bodomdragon]

People keep forgetting NIGHTMARE!

If I'm not mistaken, they already won a Cripper award a few years ago. Wouldn't make too much sense, would it?

[AceHugger]

Allegaeon

--Peace out--

[Stained Class]

The whole idea of the award is to award unknown bands, and even I who don't really like most genres of metal have heard of most of these bands before. IMO basing the contenders solely on the last.fm listeners isn't wise. It should be a combination of last.fm and facebook likes.

29151 DALRIADA - 35k
28033 CRYPTEX - 7k
27800 ORDEN OGAN - 53k
25916 ALLEGAEON - 111k
17025 AVATARIUM - 18k
14028 MISERY LOVES CO - 2k
9090 STRIKER - 91k
4869 WITCHTRAP - 23k
2185 GHOST SHIP OCTAVIUS - 7k
512 TOTAL DEATH - 9k
29 TOUCH THE SUN - 400

Dalriada, Orden Ogan, Allegaeon and maybe Avatarium are clearly too big to run. I'd take Striker and Witchtrap out as well, but include Cryptex.

Last.fm listens is the only way to objectively judge a band's popularity as facebook likes can be bought and you can be a hugely popular band without even having a facebook page.

IMO I think the cut off should stay at 10000 like it was last year, there are just simply less bands this year than it previous years that fit the spirit of the award. I dont feel like arguing about it though since last year there was a massive bitch fest about it and it took the fun out of it and the whole point of this is to be a fun thing that means next to nothing. My vote will go to Striker, I guess we'll just wait and see how UMC decides to do the voting.

[slayergeek]

I dont feel like arguing about it though since last year there was a massive bitch fest about it and it took the fun out of it and the whole point of this is to be a fun thing that means next to nothing.

Last year we had two great bands, one Thrash metal and one Power Metal.

That brought out the brutal versus weenie metal snipping. While having two great bands, both having a good case to win, is not a bad problem to have....it did divide people a bit.

This year I don't see the same level of 'ohhh my god this band MUST win' that we saw last year.

[Memnoch]

IMO basing the contenders solely on the last.fm listeners isn't wise. It should be a combination of last.fm and facebook likes.

29151 DALRIADA - 35k
28033 CRYPTEX - 7k
27800 ORDEN OGAN - 53k
25916 ALLEGAEON - 111k
17025 AVATARIUM - 18k
14028 MISERY LOVES CO - 2k
9090 STRIKER - 91k
4869 WITCHTRAP - 23k
2185 GHOST SHIP OCTAVIUS - 7k
512 TOTAL DEATH - 9k
29 TOUCH THE SUN - 400

Last.fm listens is the only way to objectively judge a band's popularity as facebook likes can be bought and you can be a hugely popular band without even having a facebook page.

That is why I said a combination of the two. Not sure if last.fm is more of a American or younger people thing, because at least none of my friends or people on the metal forums here seem to use it.
If I look at the five smallest bands based on last.fm listeners, Striker has a lot more facebook likes than the rest - they are second even in the top ten - which shows they're clearly not an unknown band. And as far as bands buying likes, well, no way of knowing if Striker or any one of the bands bought likes. Basing on how many of my friends like the bottom five bands, Striker stands out with 31 friends; Witchtrap has 18, same with GSO, Total Death has 6 and Touch the Sun 7. I know, I know, that's irrelevant, but it still shows they're, at least in my girlie metal bubble, more well-known than the others.
I do agree that we shouldn't change the cutoff to have more contenders. But, if we use only the last.fm listener count, we might as well give the vest to Striker now.

[Memnoch]

And shouldn't Trauma be a contender? They (the band that was onbroad) have a total of 582 listeners for their two albums on last.fm.

Also, Cryptex only has about 1800 listeners for their two albums. There's a more popular Cryptex it seems that's not the band we had.

[Stained Class]

And shouldn't Trauma be a contender? They (the band that was onbroad) have a total of 582 listeners for their two albums on last.fm.

Also, Cryptex only has about 1800 listeners for their two albums. There's a more popular Cryptex it seems that's not the band we had.

I hadn't checked statsmans lists, I just assumed that he would've been accurate haha. So, yes. Also, you don't have to use last.fm for it to count listens I don't think. It automatically counts streaming services and stuff. Not sure on that though

[Hulk RT]

Allegaeon will get my vote once the poll comes up. That pyramid lounge set was one hell of a party.

This.

I loved both Avatarium shows, but the Allegaeon show in the Pyramid lounge was awesome.

Yep. The pyramid show made me feel kind of bad for not sticking around for the pool deck set but I couldn't make it that long. What time did that set even start?

The pool deck set started at 0515 I believe. Was well worth staying up for. If they are on the list my vote is for them.

[Britta]

Hi everyone!
I just started a new thread for 2017th Cripper Award:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5221

Cheers